Iunebrave: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:58:39 EST

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Nekiihrac: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:02:18 EST

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Ramasoonedith: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:06:31 EST

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JimmyHavok: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Wed, 6 Sep 2006 15:13:14 EST

Do you need to be spoonfed?

ms sue collins: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:47:56 EST

The linked article doesn't say anything like that.

JimmyHavok: Re: Pin it down for me

Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:17:14 EST

"Catastrophic crime," in the right-wing lexicon, refers to the election of Democrats.

Phone call data-mining can be a very effective tool to prevent that sort of thing from happening. You just disappear the person who seems to be at the center of

JimmyHavok: Re: Give me transparency

Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:04:39 EST

snatching your camera/film

Saw that happen. A beat supervisor in Waikiki was smacking around a handcuffed drunk, to show the rookies the proper procedure (Waikiki is considered the training beat), when he noticed an outraged tourist taking

JimmyHavok: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:00:01 EST

E911 should really give you fits. Supposedly, it's a system that allows the 911 operator to locate you when you make an emergency call, but in reality, it makes your cell phone a tracking device wheneve

humorlesscretin: Re: Pin it down for me

Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:17:00 EST

We both know that's a seperate issue from datamining domestic phone calls.

I wrote a long, ranty response. I just deleted it. I'll let Bruce Schneier respond

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:36:36 EST

We both know that's a seperate issue from datamining domestic phone calls.

humorlesscretin: Re: Pin it down for me

Thu, 3 Aug 2006 23:38:33 EST

So if for every terrorist plot they root out, 1000 innocent people get locked up for life with little chance of trial let alone parole, this is acceptable and non-infringing? &

coquito: Re: Give me transparency

Thu, 3 Aug 2006 09:46:20 EST

Going to a crime scene and trying to take a picture of the police in action would probably be a more effective proof than anything I could post here.

that cops can be a-holes is no surprise, but it's also not proof (sorry to harp on that)

Thalia: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Thu, 3 Aug 2006 00:14:55 EST

I fundamentally don't have a problem if they scan your car as they drive by. They used to do it manually as well. What I worry about with this technology is that all the data they collect will be saved. So in addition to finding out that

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 23:11:39 EST

"Why the sudden exception?"

It's impossible to get a warrant for datamining all phone calls. If you think this shouldn't be done, then advocate ending it.

"Let's say the NSA isn't full of crap, and managed to catch a terrorist with datamined informat

eduardo: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:58:14 EST

Tash, I don't know what datamining tools are employed for this operation, but in general data mining is an open-ended excercise. It answers questions you did not know to ask and finds patterns you did not except to look for, rather than answering straight

gaspacho: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:50:28 EST

The government intrudes on private drinking establishments where I live, for example, to prevent smoking from going on there. This is an infrigement on my freedom and the freedom of property owners.

No one's ever been detained and sent off to Gi

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:39:19 EST

If it stops a single terrorist cell I would consider it effective. It's a unique tool in the anti-terror arsenal. There are numerous things the government does I find intrusive, I happen to think data mining phone calls isn't one of them. The government in

Tashtego: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:45:50 EST

What's new is the NSA using supercomputers to sift through databases of every call made to find patterns.

What constitutes a pattern? What do they do with a pattern when they find it? How often does the finding of a pattern result in the preventi

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:07:38 EST

Because that's not controversial, new, or what the purpose of data mining is. The FBI and other law enforcement agencys can already comb over an individual suspects phone records.

What's new is the NSA using supercomputers to sift through databases of e

gaspacho: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 20:19:41 EST

That's not the level the data mining is taking place.

And you know this... how?

thefadd: Re: Tech cuts both ways

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:17:33 EST

Your missing the point.

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:03:51 EST

" guess that means that figuring out everyone who has called me, and chaining so forward would be useful & wouldn't infringe on my rights?"

That's not the level the data mining is taking place. (If an actual terror suspect, under surveilance, did ca

eduardo: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:02:59 EST

If so, would you feel better if this was only done to a particular car when a human cop pushed a button?

SOMEWHAT related -

A few years ago a friend of mine got a ticket on his parked car because his New York emissions sticker was a few mont

Thalia: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:39:07 EST

So I got a phone call yesterday from someone who spoke in a language I do not speak. I think it might have been Arabic. I guess that means that figuring out everyone who has called me, and chaining so forward would be useful & wouldn't infr

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:23:34 EST

No, you datamine the calls and detect links between callers and so unearth networks. It's an incredibly powerful tool, and like I said I fail to see how it infringes on anyone.

Coelacanth: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 14:16:55 EST

I happen to think data mining cell phone calls is a highly effective and barely intrusive method to prevent catastrophic crimes.

Aside from the basic privacy concerns, I happen to think it's mathematically ridiculous. Let's say there's one

zyxwvutsr: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:41:46 EST

...just because a law is unconstitutional doesn't prevent a state legislature from passing it

No legislature has passed any such law.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:38:59 EST

Most states have laws on the books making it illegal to audiotape, videotape or photograph police officers

Where did you get that idea? It is perfectly legal to photograph police officers as long as you have not otherwise bro

Shadarr: Re: Tech cuts both ways

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:22:17 EST

Except that using such a product to obscure your license plate is a crime in its own right, and in this case (where there are actual officers in the vehicle with the camera) would instantly get you pulled over.

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:19:10 EST

"This tech can easily lead to a way to track the whereabouts of anyone driving a car"

In a few years I can see this being used to warn Jews drunk driving Mel Gibson is in the area, and he's ready to rant!

"That's as bad as tracking every phone call m

Coelacanth: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:54:07 EST

For me it's number 4. Bruce Schneier puts it eloquently. It's an excellent read. From the article:

Cardinal Richelieu understood the value of surveillance when he famous

gaspacho: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:44:22 EST
Please provide opposing citation.
Going to a crime scene and trying to take a picture of the police in action would probably be a more effective proof than anything I could post here.
I agree with you (and the fadd) that laws like these are

wetkarma: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:14:57 EST

Most states have laws on the books making it illegal to audiotape, videotape or photograph police officers. And these same laws are being amended to include cellphone cameras.
Color me skeptical.
If most states, or even some states

thefadd: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:08:11 EST
Most states have laws on the books making it illegal to audiotape, videotape or photograph police officers. And these same laws are being amended to include cellphone cameras.
They do? That's pretty screwed up. I know California doesn't have

uncarved block: Number 4

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:00:20 EST
I may be a liberal, but that doesn't mean I trust big government to always be "good."* After having read, many times, how the police states of the world rely more on information than force, or the threat of force, to maintain power and disrupt

Lou: Tech cuts both ways

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:55:43 EST
I think we all can agree that almost as soon as some clever bugger comes up with a way of watching us, another clever bugger comes up with a way to defeat the watcher. For example,

Tashtego: Re: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:38:57 EST
I wonder what aspect of it makes us feel creepy
Two words: Harry Buttle.

gaspacho: Re: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:37:15 EST
I wonder how much it would cost to setup an internet connected server that allowed individuals to see how often officers were tracking their vehicles?
Couple thousand bucks. And one ob

profwhat: Pin it down for me

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:53:05 EST
Regardless of whether you think this is legal (I think it is), this probably makes you feel a bit creepy. I wonder what aspect of it makes us feel creepy:

Is it that every license plate is being looked at, without suspici

Tashtego: Asimov Said It Best

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:29:30 EST
I congratulate you. Happy goldfish bowl to you, to me, to everyone, and may each of you fry in hell forever.
-Isaac Asimov, The Dead Past

WMK: inevitable, inexorable, unstoppable

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:05:45 EST
the only thing I can see stopping the proliferation of this technology is the idiotic 20K$/unit pricetag, IMO that is way to high, considering the hardware required is a digital camera, a wireless connection/2-way radio, and a computer. All police ca

wetkarma: Give me transparency

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:34:58 EST
$20k for one scanner eh? I wonder how much it would cost to setup an internet connected server that allowed individuals to see how often officers were tracking their vehicles?
Technology cuts all kinds of ways - by all means use it to assist law enforce

thefadd: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Wed, 2 Aug 2006 02:39:52 EST
Swear I read in the LA Weekly that my subQ comment was the case but that's what I get for following that liberal rag anyway...Apparently it is only the case that one car is currently outfitted with this technology in the LAPD fleet. But it appears that

If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to fear? (Trees And Things)

Iunebrave: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

Nekiihrac: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

Ramasoonedith: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have t

JimmyHavok: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

ms sue collins: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

JimmyHavok: Re: Pin it down for me

JimmyHavok: Re: Give me transparency

JimmyHavok: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

humorlesscretin: Re: Pin it down for me

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

humorlesscretin: Re: Pin it down for me

coquito: Re: Give me transparency

Thalia: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

eduardo: Re: Pin it down for me

gaspacho: Re: Pin it down for me

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Tashtego: Re: Pin it down for me

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

gaspacho: Re: Pin it down for me

thefadd: Re: Tech cuts both ways

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

eduardo: Re: Pin it down for me

Thalia: Re: Pin it down for me

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Coelacanth: Re: Pin it down for me

zyxwvutsr: Re: Give me transparency

zyxwvutsr: Re: Give me transparency

Shadarr: Re: Tech cuts both ways

Steve Urkel: Re: Pin it down for me

Coelacanth: Re: Pin it down for me

gaspacho: Re: Give me transparency

wetkarma: Re: Give me transparency

thefadd: Re: Give me transparency

uncarved block: Number 4

Lou: Tech cuts both ways

Tashtego: Re: Pin it down for me

gaspacho: Re: Give me transparency

profwhat: Pin it down for me

Tashtego: Asimov Said It Best

WMK: inevitable, inexorable, unstoppable

wetkarma: Give me transparency

thefadd: Re: If your car isn't invalid, what do you have to