novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:31:52 EST

You know what? You're totally, totally right! Even when you get out of

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:24:03 EST

...there's 4.3m people in Sydney who'd like a word with you (and when they're done, there's the people from Vancouver, San Francisco, Tokyo, Munich, and on and on)

Oh, please. There are only a handful of truly great cities in

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:58:20 EST

...check out these murder rates in various US and European cities

You're totally, totally right! Oh, man, it sucks to be an American! I wish I could escape this god-forsaken land!

Pushing crime-ridden slums

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:51:02 EST

Would that make any difference? The only two real contestants on this list are NYC and London, so it doesn't matter if we're being "fair" to volumes of other exchanges.
Huh. First, you complain that the rankings aren't "fair," and t

novy: Re: London is LA without ...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:25:41 EST
Where did you live in each city? I expect that would make substantial difference in how you viewed them. For example, areas of metro LA near beaches feel very different than, say, San Fernando Valley.

Lou: Careful there

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:04:19 EST
You need to try some more. As far as I am concerned Canada's beer is second only to American beer.
Trim that broad brush there, Z. By just saying "American Beer" you are including Micholob Light, Bud Ice, and [shudder] "Nastygansett".

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:04:03 EST
Actually, I admit I've never been to Munchen, but check out these murder rates in various US and European cities:
Washington, D.C., US, 69.3 murders per 100,000
Philadelphia, US, 27.4 per 100,

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:31:57 EST

Have you been to Canada, Australia, or Europe?
I've never been to Australia and have only been to a few places in Europe and Canada.

Do you think you would have to step over drunks or avoid large portions of

zyxwvutsr: Re: Canadian beer

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:23:28 EST

all the Canadian beer I've had has been pretty sad
You need to try some more. As far as I am concerned Canada's beer is second only to American beer. (Germany, Belgium, and England probably tie for third place.)
Just off t

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:23:24 EST
Thank you for posting that list. I couldn't open your link, since I don't have Microsoft Office (perhaps explaining why I never saw that list when I write story), but this time I will take your word for it. Still, both Independent and Master Card li

novy: Re: food cities

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:13:47 EST
Varieties of ethnic cuisine may be more extensive in Sydney even if Tokyo has more restaurants and more excellent restaurants. Since Tokyo has almost eight times as many people as Sydney, it would be beyond surprising if Sydney could match Tokyo in

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:13:32 EST

On Independent's list, only city that makes top 10 is New York
Oh my God! The Independent posted the wrong list online. You had better write them a letter to let them know. Here's the top ten cities according to the

JimmyHavok: food cities

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:05:52 EST
I find it hard to believe that a city in Australia (Sydney) could match the capital city of an entire nation of food fetishists (Tokyo).

JimmyHavok: Canadian beer

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:59:53 EST
So far, all the Canadian beer I've had has been pretty sad. I've only been to Niagara Falls and BC, but all I encountered was mediocre lager and thin ale that tasted like lager. The only brewpub we could find in Niagara had so much support it s

eduardo: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:48:57 EST
So you have to devalue the Euro to match? Shouldn't this mean we need to devalue everything to the level of the Singapore dollar? Or maybe the Bhutanese ngultrum or Indian rupee?
Would that make any difference? The only two real contestants on th

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:41:26 EST
I found it tempting to disingenuously thank you for seeing errors of your ways and letting it go at that. I also considered accepting your ostensible effort to disconnect from me by refusing to reliably disagree with me, but then your lengthy reply really

ms sue: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:01:40 EST
Nice.
And still just as touchy when affectionately teased but a wee bit.
In a sense - you inspire me. Specifically, in the sense that if I marry well, I'll have tons of time to spend on the internet ;)
Sounds like a plan. Or you can

zyxwvutsr: Re: The Warden of the Honour of the North

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:33:23 EST

Halifax - is it even a city?
Yes, Halifax is a city. Sure, Montreal has more people, but so what? Halifax still has a significant population and is the chief city in the Maritimes. It is a center of banking and shipping and s

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:50:14 EST
If London had a major UN office then they would have added the UN to their list of criteria.

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:31:25 EST

I must say though that since I was hoping to find people I could disagree with on TnT, how convenient that I can count on you
Sorry, but I have changed my mind and I completely agree with you:
The US government fails to ad

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:20:52 EST
Corn and popcorn should count too.

novy: Re: Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:19:28 EST
DC/Baltimore really does suck. One wonders how powerful country can have such dreadful capital. I take your word on Halifax because Quebec City and Ottawa really could put any sensible person into coma. Toronto women may not be French, but "all the chicks

Lou: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:03:38 EST
At least one food (if you can call it that) is well and truly all-American...it was even invented by a Native American!

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:00:31 EST
Actually, they claimed Sydney as ethnic cuisine capital of world. These days, Las Vegas deserves points for ethnic cuisine, and cuisine in general, but not for anything else unless nude entertainment counts for something.

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:55:27 EST
Your reference to "Bhutanese ngultrum" justifies your entire post.
But, like it or not, US cuisine really exists (although it gets called "Canadian cuisine" by your northern neighbours). On low end, pizza doesn't count as genuinely Italian, chop suey (

permazorch: Re: The Greatest City on Planet Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:49:08 EST
I like Chicago, too.

Lou: Don't diss the dog

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:46:51 EST
Granted, the idea of a sausage goes all the way back to time of Homer.
"Ok, Honey...the sheep are all slaughtered the good bits are put away. What should we do with all of this intestine and stuff that's too nasty to eat on its own?
But,

permazorch: Re: There are no great cities on Earth anymore

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:46:21 EST
So, uh, where's the well-priced and decent heroin - Boulder, Colorado? Doubtful.

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:41:38 EST
Since Seoul comes in No. 2 in population to Mexico City's No. 3, Seoul got screwed worse than Mexico City did. Independent called Mexico City "Capital of Latin America" but called Seoul nothing at all.

novy: Re: Joe Stalin, is that you?

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:38:29 EST
If you would rather call me that in honour of Plastic, fine. This was my original moniker, and it remains only one I have ever used on TnT. You can accuse me of trolling all you like, but I believe things I say, and I do my best to back up my arguments. By

permazorch: Re: Joe Stalin, is that you?

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:35:16 EST
If that is Joe Stalin, it's the new one.

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:59:30 EST
In reality, no. Eduardo posts very seldom on Plastic now. That's why his original post here struck me as odd. But then so does Ed. :-)
Nice.
I was AWOL from Plastic for a while - my life has a negative amount of free time nowdays. A few weeks

Steve Urkel: There are no great cities on Earth anymore

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:40:51 EST
They've all been ruint. Everywhere you go it's the same bad traffic, the same ugly architecture, the same over-priced heroin, the same boring vulgar "attractions", the same shops selling the same overpriced shitty clothes for the same ugly poseurs while th

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:20:19 EST

If who did anything?
Sorry. My snark fell flat there. Let's try it over again.
While NYC is not a capital, it is the seat of the UN and therefore incurs at least as much "prestige [and] ... economic activity" as any of th

rEvolution inAction: Re: They're all wet...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:01:20 EST

(Sorry, rEv, you can have Montreal.)
That's right, the vity is mine!

rEvolution inAction: Re: Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:00:06 EST
It'll only be patriotic posturing once we take over the world.

we have a mountain in the middle of the city

we are on an island

we have great weed

we have great festivals

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:40:57 EST

And American cuisine is what, exactly?...Besides, what they probably did was go through the phone book (or equivalent) and pull out any restaurant
Actually they used a London-based guidebook. The New York version of that gui

PenitenziAgite: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:40:37 EST
Hey, why not Mexico City? If we're going to go by population....

ckm: London is LA without ...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:27:33 EST
... the good weather. Everything is a 20-minute drive, both have a large underclass, business/shopping centers are separated by vast, boring residential areas, both have a class-driven social structure dominated by a particular industry (finance and

zyxwvutsr: Joe Stalin, is that you?

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:26:48 EST

How come richest country on Earth consistently falls behind Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and countries across Europe in quality of life surveys?
So, Joe, is this your first foray into Trees and Things, or have you been her

Nameless Cynic: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:14:58 EST
Hey, 'duardo. Couple of minor nitpicks in your assessment.
First, the weak dollar diminishes the relative value of the trades done in the US compared to those denominated in GBP in Lodon.
So you have to devalue the Euro to match? Sho

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:12:12 EST
If London gets tagged as being "highly dependent on US support (in all senses - technological, political, and operational)", then surely Brussels' NATO Headquarters deserves same tags. But even nominal HQ for NATO ought to earn Brussels some points, maybe

port1080: Re: They're all wet...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:40:12 EST
no military decisions get made in Brussels
They would beg to differ:

NATO Headquarters
Blvd Leopold III
1110 Brussels, Belgium
natodoc@hq.nato.int

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:24:01 EST
I admit I hadn't seen him there much either, but I figured I should give him presumptive credit for posting on Plastic before I got there based on his assertions.

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:22:11 EST
I agree with you on this. Washington, DC, doesn't compare well to other world-class cities, but should be considered "great" anyway because of its influence on world affairs in general. Beijing may be China's third largest city after Shanghai and Canton (G

ms sue: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:13:10 EST
I guess now he's kept busy on Plastic
In reality, no. Eduardo posts very seldom on Plastic now. That's why his original post here struck me as odd. But then so does Ed. :-)

novy: Re: I'm sorry.

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:03:20 EST
I acknowledge that US government doesn't help out cities much, even as your first comment claimed it did, to ill effect. Yes, that differs from how things work in Canada and Western Europe, where cities generally look and feel more livable. This

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:10:34 EST
I guess now he's kept busy on Plastic, or here, in preference.

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:05:15 EST

Do you really consider yourself "Plastic person" or internet free agent?
Actually, dating back to his original nick on Plastic, he sort of belonged to this site, which was really a suburb

zyxwvutsr: Re: I'm sorry.

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:00:36 EST
You completely ignore the fact that US cities are not funded by the federal government, but raise their own revenue from local taxes. That differs somewhat from the way other nations handle things, but it also means that if a city is starved of "operating

port1080: Re: They're all wet...

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:41:21 EST
As for "foolish chest thumping", you have to admit that most people engage in it to some extent. US politicians seem obsessed with it, and "patriotism" in all its flavours revolves around it. Humans really did evolve from great apes, and telling us not

zyxwvutsr: Re: I'm sorry.

Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:28:50 EST

I'd say since the US Senate was configured to give two senators to every state regardless of population
Right, and the Senate can pass laws all by itself. Oh, wait...they can't; the House has to agree to anything that the Sen

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:14:24 EST
Point taken. On food front, I guess I have to go back to Independent's No. 1 rating for Sydney for variations of ethnic cuisine and general quality of restaurants. French food doesn't suck (well, except for "escargot"; that stuff really qualifies as frog f

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:03:33 EST
If not crime, how about Michelin stars for restaurants? Tokyo got more than any other city on Earth, while New York didn't even measure up to Paris. (And what happened there anyway? Did all those great chefs move to Las Vegas or something?)
That

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 23:02:01 EST
If not crime, how about Michelin stars for restaurants? Tokyo got more than any other city on Earth, while New York didn't even measure up to Paris. (And what happened there anyway? Did all those great chefs move to Las Vegas or something?)
That

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:48:41 EST
If not crime, how about Michelin stars for restaurants? Tokyo got more than any other city on Earth, while New York didn't even measure up to Paris. (And what happened there anyway? Did all those great chefs move to Las Vegas or something?)

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:41:55 EST
I do hear Tokyo is quite a baller city although I'd disagree with you about using crime stats to make the case. Crime kinda stems from the city being... well... a city, so it would seem wrong to use it as a penalty. After all, we're measuring urbannness he

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:58:43 EST
No doubt Independent cooked their study to come up with their home city as world's best. But you seem to accept most of their "objective criteria" as appropriate for judging greatness of world cities. At last, you just tinker with their study rather than c

thefadd: Re: The Greatest City on Planet Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:46:31 EST
Maybe I am too bored of NYC having grownup in such close proximity but I will take Chicago over New York any day. The folk are far more laid back and accessible. Chicago offers everything New York does in a more user friendly manner. NYC is just over kill.

Acefantastik: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:45:36 EST
stay here, mofo. Plenty of us are polygamists. I post here, and over on gawker sites. Plastic less so. We'd love to have you.

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:39:27 EST
First off, I agree that "cooking the results to make the answer London sells papers in London". I pointed out in story that giving points to London for being "capital" changed their result by itself, not to mention giving New York and other cities no credi

novy: Re: I'm sorry.

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:21:28 EST
As to your first point, rural voters in US get overrepresented in several important ways. Acefantastik correctly notes that structure of US Senate guarantees overrepresentation of rural states, with places like North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming,

eduardo: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:12:45 EST
Hello TnT people, I am here because Plastic is down so enjoy me while I am here.
NYC is clearly the best city in the world. The fact that it only "lost" by 1 point in an insanely subjective list done by a Lodon paper is pretty much proof of that. It's a

Shy Elf: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:50:55 EST
Re: Mastercard ratings
Business Center (22%) - Degree to which the city intermediates the flow of goods, services, people, finances and information, etc.
And your rank the financial hub of the world, NYC 4th? This study is tota

Acefantastik: Re: I'm sorry.

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:49:38 EST
Since when did rural Americans have so much political power?
I'd say since the US Senate was configured to give two senators to every state regardless of population.

zyxwvutsr: Re: I'm sorry.

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:41:13 EST

...rural Americans outright hate cities and prevail upon their representatives to starve cities of operating capital and subsidies even as they insist on enormous farm subsidies for themselves
Since when did rural Americans h

permazorch: The Greatest City on Planet Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:12:38 EST
that I've ever been to, was hands-down, New York City. Prague and Madrid were both quite fine, but not even close to NYC.
I think the limeys are all wet on this one. London?! Pah!

novy: Re: I'm sorry.

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:06:10 EST
Toronto matches up well against most US cities anyway, even putting cultural diversity to one side. Some large US cities have sections that look war-damaged even though there haven't been any wars, many others have large sections where every building has b

TonedEff: I'm sorry.

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:13:27 EST
I didn't make myself clear with my initial post. I really don't care that much about whether Toronto is the greatest city in the world or not. Another set of criteria and you might end up with Shanghai or Mumbai or Singapore or Abu Dhabi as bei

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:49:02 EST
Actually, Toronto (at 5,350,000 people in its urban agglomeration) ranks No. 63 in the world, not just behind 3. Mexico City, 4. New York, and 8. Los Angeles, but also behind 27. Chicago (9,800,000), 35

TonedEff: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:16:43 EST
I'll refer you to zyxwvutsr's post on Toronto. Home to virtually every ethnic group on earth and a total population of 4.5 million and growing, it's the fifth largest city in North America (after Mexico City, New York, LA, and Chicago). I've he

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:41:59 EST
Please tell us more about Toronto's cultural diversity. What makes it more culturally diverse than New York or London or Sydney. Would you say Toronto reflects cultural diversity of Canada or that it has unique elements as Canada's magnet for immigration?

zyxwvutsr: Re: We're all wetbacks...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:32:14 EST

if cultural diversity is a key factor, then Toronto would probably rate a higher mention than New York City
Pfft. Even Queens all by itself has more cultu

novy: Re: Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:25:07 EST
Please share with us why Montreal ranks No. 1 in your book, aside from patriotic posturing. Comparisons with other cities you've visited would be helpful. Next time I visit, I'd like to know what I missed last time.

TonedEff: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:18:45 EST
And, if cultural diversity is a key factor, then Toronto would probably rate a higher mention than New York City (and with all apologies to rEv, forget about Montreal).

novy: Re: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:09:31 EST
I would have been tempted to put Tokyo at Number One just because of that size and congestion. At 33,600,000 people in its metro agglomeration, it stands as biggest city by some 10,000,000 citizens, putting it in class by itself. Its extreme wealth also ar

rEvolution inAction: Re: Greatest City On Earth

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:04:25 EST
what a bs list, Montreal is #1.

port1080: They're all wet...

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 06:47:52 EST
It just seems like an odd list. Is there any way to "objectively" rate cities, anyway? What's good for you depends on the person. To me, Tokyo's size, expense, and congestion would take it off my top list right away. Other things are contradictory - fo

Greatest City On Earth (Trees And Things)

PenitenziAgite: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

rEvolution inAction: Re: The Warden of the Honour of the North

thefadd: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

thefadd: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

thefadd: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

eduardo: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: diversity wins

JimmyHavok: diversity wins

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

PenitenziAgite: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: London is LA without ...

Lou: Careful there

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

zyxwvutsr: Re: Canadian beer

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

novy: Re: food cities

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

JimmyHavok: food cities

JimmyHavok: Canadian beer

eduardo: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

ms sue: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

zyxwvutsr: Re: The Warden of the Honour of the North

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

zyxwvutsr: Re: You're Totally, Totally Right!

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: Greatest City On Earth

Lou: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

permazorch: Re: The Greatest City on Planet Earth

Lou: Don't diss the dog

permazorch: Re: There are no great cities on Earth anymore

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: Joe Stalin, is that you?

permazorch: Re: Joe Stalin, is that you?

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Steve Urkel: There are no great cities on Earth anymore

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

rEvolution inAction: Re: They're all wet...

rEvolution inAction: Re: Greatest City On Earth

zyxwvutsr: Re: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

PenitenziAgite: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

ckm: London is LA without ...

zyxwvutsr: Joe Stalin, is that you?

Nameless Cynic: NYC = Wretched hive of scum and villainy

novy: Re: They're all wet...

port1080: Re: They're all wet...

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: They're all wet...

ms sue: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: I'm sorry.

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Nameless Cynic: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

zyxwvutsr: Re: I'm sorry.

port1080: Re: They're all wet...

zyxwvutsr: Re: I'm sorry.

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

eduardo: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

thefadd: Re: The Greatest City on Planet Earth

Acefantastik: Re: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

novy: Re: They're all wet...

novy: Re: I'm sorry.

eduardo: NYC = Greatest City On Earth

Shy Elf: Re: They're all wet...

Acefantastik: Re: I'm sorry.