http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205 Robert Hawkins, 20, was apparently the perpetrator of mass murder at a mall in Nebraska yesterday evening. Eight people (plus the murderer) <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116784/">are dead, and at least five wounded</a>. en-us Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:33:13 EST Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:37:16 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#22 <i>I always figured however that had the event really happened, a nut with an automatic weapon would be able to kill far more people than 8.</i><p> I don't know why you'd say that.  8 dead and 5 wounded in 6 minutes is not bad at all.  Maybe the Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:37:16 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#21 Ah, interesting take. I know people who ought to "know better" -- ie, one would hope that reasonable, intelligent people could find ways to relate to one another in the fashion p0 advocates -- but who pursue the emotional crisis mode in almost all cases be Fri, 7 Dec 2007 13:21:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#20 I guess I didn't mean the two options to be exclusive to eachother. What I sort of was trying to say was do people do it (emotional appeals, silly framing) because it works, or because it's quick and easy, or possibly both?<p> Replies seem to indicate both Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:43:30 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#19 IANAL, so just spitballing here: you don't need a weapons permit to carry a firearm in many states. In virginia for example you have an explicitly "right to carry". The proportion of the population affected therefore is theoretically 100%. Now I assume tha Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:04:02 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#18 <i> Following up on the recent DC gun control thread, I wonder when some clever lawyer will begin to sue these malls for failing to provide appropriate defense of its patrons while intentionally stripping said patrons from the ability to defend themselves. Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:33:58 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#17 Scary isn't it? I think it would make for a good TnT story. It's been on my to do list since I first read about it. Fri, 7 Dec 2007 08:09:16 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#16 When I lived in Virginia, quite a few people there would walk around with sidearms  and ever so often you'd hear a local story about a mall preventing firearm owners from entering the mall. (the malls declaring themselves "gun free zones"). <p> Follow Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:02:51 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#15 Reports I saw said he reloaded only twice.  I suppose we can be thankful that McDonald's doesn't pay enough to buy a good arsenal.<p> And you thought your Christmas shopping experience was bad. Fri, 7 Dec 2007 04:42:49 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#14 I'm not really clear on what the difference is between the two possible answers to your question are that you're putting forward so it seems to me we're very likely talking about this in different terms. If I'm not addressing your point here, could you tal Fri, 7 Dec 2007 00:56:52 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#13 Wow, I had completely missed that... Wow. Thu, 6 Dec 2007 23:15:15 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#12 Both and neither. I think these appeals to emotion have a few purposes. One: As you point out they motivate the base. Nothing gets the base more likely to write angry e-mails or call in than appeals to emotion. Two: By painting the issue as a black and whi Thu, 6 Dec 2007 21:07:55 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#11 I was recently reading about "framing" and I wonder if maybe the two are related. Do these sort of "discussion" tactics just work better at motivating people, or is just an easy solution for politicians to quickly frame their position on a controversial to Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:06:17 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#10 Thank you. I often wish policy debates in this country could be covered without appeals to emotion or scare tactics but it often seems like that will something that will forever be a dream of mine. I guess the only thing I can do is make fun of that type o Thu, 6 Dec 2007 19:09:52 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#9 I think that covered the bases nicely. Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:32:26 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#8 Yea I had the debt of honor deja vu thing too.<p> Still as long as we don't go to a "red storm rising" scenario eh? Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:11:10 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#7 But think of the children! Even if it prevents one person from doing something it is worth it. Why don't you agree people should be subject to random searches and be treated like convicted felons just to go to the store? If you're not with us, you're again Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:57:53 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#6 <blockquote><i>Will our malls and public gathering places eventually turn into more secure facilities like in Israel with metal detectors and searches upon entrance?</i></blockquote>No doubt there are people who are seriously (though stupidly) suggesting t Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:50:46 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#5 <i> This story reminds me in passing of Tom Clancy's dreck post-911 novel "Teeth of the Tiger" or something like that. I'm too lazy to check, but a sub-plot was islamic terrorists shooting up a mall.<br> </i><p> I thought of that too. Same thing as in the Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:01:08 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#4 <i> Malls are not like airports where people will put up with lots of shit because there aren't any other good travel options. Make me feel like a criminal when I shop and I'll go take my business elsewhere -- perception of security be damned. </i><p> Exce Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:58:41 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#3 A few years ago I went to a movie theater in Long Island, NY which were forcing customers to go through metal detectors before entering. I'd never go back.<p> Malls are not like airports where people will put up with lots of shit because there aren't any o Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:40:21 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#2 This story reminds me in passing of Tom Clancy's dreck post-911 novel "Teeth of the Tiger" or something like that. I'm too lazy to check, but a sub-plot was islamic terrorists shooting up a mall. <p> I always figured however that had the event really happe Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:36:42 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/12/5/212747/205#1 I heard a few people talking about this idiot. Apparently he did it for the supposed fame and to go out in a blaze of glory. It is the biggest mass murder in Omaha's history. The question then becomes: Does the media have a responsibility to help prevent t Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:27:35 EST string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/