War in Palestinian Territory (Trees And Things)

permazorch: Re: Western Donors?

Fri, 9 Feb 2007 22:50:50 EST

Simply a crying shame. The constant mourning of what might have been, what should have been, and what was intended to have been, for all of us stupid, motherfucking children on this green planet of the clocks.

Let's build a new sandcastle, just f

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Tue, 6 Feb 2007 02:11:28 EST

Yup.. too bad it's ignored too often.

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Tue, 6 Feb 2007 01:14:03 EST

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Tue, 6 Feb 2007 01:04:44 EST

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the proph

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 23:05:46 EST
For the same reason that the U.S. discriminated against blacks for over 100 years, because they're afraid. And they have some right to be afraid. Some 60% of Israeli Arabs support the Palestinian intifada. And demographic bomb like, the number

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:25:08 EST
Absolute consensus implies that everyone agrees, which is not true. I'd say it's an absolute consensus of nations, but not of the people making up those nations. It happens to be the policy of majority in every country (especially western) and the most for

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:20:56 EST
Didn't say it was.

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:20:38 EST
Arab or Israeli Arab, they are still treated as second class citizens... please explain why.

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:36:40 EST
CIA Factbook says:
Ethnic groups:
Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)
Religions:
Jewish 76.4%, Muslim 16%, Arab Christians 1.7%, other C

ms sue: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 16:10:25 EST
Anyone who is opposed to unregulated immigration is racist in my mind
Quite a nuanced conclusion in your mind.

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:55:35 EST
In other words, you deem all countries in the world "racist." That's cool. At least a consistent position. It's a bit weird to consider the absolute concensus to be "racist" but c'est la vie.
Thalia

rEvolution inAction: Re: What Eternal Flavor Does One Favor?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:52:20 EST
[option] Have Israel and Palestine become two nations within one united country, with one capital city (Jerusalem) for the three governments (Federal,Israeli,Palestinian, and a Jerusalem municipal government).

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:48:40 EST
True enough.

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:46:34 EST
The US has more atheists than they do Muslims (and they top out at around 10-15%). Israel has 16% of it's population identified by census as Muslim. Also it is hard to compare parliamentary positions with republican ones as both the powers and the method o

Thalia: Re: What Eternal Flavor Does One Favor?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:43:35 EST
Sadly, I couldn't come up with an option I actually wanted. Suggestions?

permazorch: Re: What Eternal Flavor Does One Favor?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:16:42 EST
Sorry about the semi-coherent comment. I am at work. This is one of the few polls I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the available options.

permazorch: What Eternal Flavor Does One Favor?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:42:50 EST
Y'know, there's always been more than one flavor of Zionism (like Feminism and all the rest of it), and I'd prefer mine, if I had a choice, closer to an enlightened advancement from where the USA finds itself now. I'd rather we (the USA) were something mor

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:34:11 EST
The Knesset is the Congress. You remember the bullshit that went down when the first Muslim was elected to the U.S. Congress? After 200+ years? And last I checked, Muslim countries haven't made war on the U.S. particularly. So WTF w

Thalia: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:03:34 EST
The majority of Mexicans in the U.S. don't vote in U.S. elections either. Citizenship is required. But there are quite a few non-Jewish citizens in Israel, and they have a right to vote.
Thalia

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:11:14 EST
Oh.. one other thing. In Israel 80% of the population is defined as Jewish, the largest minority is not 'Muslims' it is 'Israeli Arabs'. Those are the definitions they use. Does equality of religion still matter at that point?

coquito: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:22:23 EST
So if Saudi Arabia can remain a Wahabi state, and Iran a Shiite state, why can't Israel remain a Jewish state?
As an advocate for secular democracy, I would prefer it if none of those places remained religious states. And as I understand it, our

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 02:12:22 EST
As I'm sure you know, the majority of Jews living in Palestine vote in Israeli elections.

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 02:10:57 EST
Historically Judaism has had a problem recognizing conversions. The problem is that the state's constitution affirms equal rights for all, but in practice is discriminatory.
The occupation has a lot to do with the Jewish nature of the state. Israel has

shatov: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 01:29:07 EST
I'm not so sure that that is a huge problem. As long as equal rights regardless of religion are enshrined in the constitution, then the religion of the state is fine. Judaism is more benign than Christianity - there is not the same history of forced conver

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Mon, 5 Feb 2007 01:20:39 EST
Never? Really? Oh wait.. you just meant the Knesset.. not an actual cabinet position (

shatov: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 23:07:14 EST
I don't think that Israel is being very wise by releasing this money to Abbas. It may be that this could help Fatah defeat Hamas, but this victory may come at the expense of appearing to be Israeli puppets against the democratically elected Hamas. How coul

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:34:08 EST
Don't look now, but Russia wants to send Hamas a check

ms sue: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:35:20 EST
This is to both you and coq: I wasn't really considering rEv's comment per se here, and I wasn't necessarily defending Thalia's remark -- but just saying that perhaps she was reacting to history.
I could name David Palter and Eduardo who

rEvolution inAction: Back on topic

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:17:05 EST
Another broken truce agreement. Can we call it a civil war yet? And if so.. what does it mean? The possible outcomes are: (1) Fatah wins (2) Hamas wins (3) They eventually reach a peace deal

marduk: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:11:12 EST
Everyone who criticized South Africa was really just prejudiced against the Dutch.

rEvolution inAction: Re: This is what I see.

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:54:57 EST
No worries, if it happens again I will, but this could have just been my error or my browser or my pc or my connection (I've been getting alot of timeout's recently).

MayorBob: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 13:58:37 EST
I don't recall that many either myself, although to say there were none who adopted an "Israel does no wrong" posture is going a bit IMHO. I could name David Palter and Eduardo who fall into that category when you get them right revved up on the topi

coquito: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 13:51:53 EST
Perhaps Thalia's comment was a reaction to how these discussions often evolve...or devolve, thanks to just a few who can't seem to see any middle ground ever when it comes to any issue involving the Middle East.
I don't recall too many -- any, really

MayorBob: This is what I see.

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 13:11:35 EST
Can also include links for: Misuse of funds, Israel releasing Palestinian money (which requires legislature approval to spend) to Fatah for 'security reasons' and that Israel is now running guns for Fatah. - rEvolution inAction
Perhaps you might

ms sue: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:24:06 EST
Can we not talk about that obvious fact without immediately starting the name calling game? Or is mere mention of Israeli involvement verboten and a suddenly a sign of anti-Israelism?
Very good questions. Perhaps Thalia's comment was a reac

rEvolution inAction: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 12:11:55 EST
Those comments were lifted from an aborted sub I sent to Plastic a week ago entitled "Fatah: As Corrupt As Ever".. the only reason there is all this violence is because no one (this includes Israel, but does not single them out) is willing to take Hamas at

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:57:16 EST
No the comment I made still doesn't appear after switching to view all.. I think it just wasn't submitted.

coquito: Re: War in Palestinian Territory

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:48:33 EST
There was this exchange in the subQ:
comment:

Can also include links for: Misuse of funds, Israel releasing Palestinian money (which requires legislature approval to spend) to Fatah for 'security reasons' and that Israel is now running g

coquito: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:38:22 EST
Why are Western donors so essential for funding palestine? Why don't the palestinian people get the majority of their aid from their "muslim brothers" in Saudi Arabia etc?
In part, that seems to be answered in one of the links from the writeup:

MayorBob: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 11:17:12 EST
The reason your comments and the link have disappeared "into nothingness" is that you need to set your preferences for comments to accept all comments. Just click on Preferences on the right side of the page and then click on comments at the top of t

rEvolution inAction: Re: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:26:51 EST
There is also the matter of taxes that the Israel collects on the behalf of the PA but refuses to release to them. As the first editor link (and my previous comment which has disappeared into nothingness) says Israel has released a quarter of the taxes tha

wetkarma: Western Donors?

Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:14:34 EST
Why are Western donors so essential for funding palestine? Why don't the palestinian people get the majority of their aid from their "muslim brothers" in Saudi Arabia etc?
Also while the deaths of so many people is indeed a tragedy, I've read this morn