Sheehan Done (Trees And Things)

nmiguy: Re: Sheehan Done

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:13:53 EST

I'm not attacking her...

talk about someone with absolutely nothing to contribute to anything -- and the notion that what you have to say is worth a shit just because you lost a child is revolting in the extreme.

I'd say her whole ca

thefadd: Re: Vietnam ahead on points

Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:11:51 EST
We might be better off if the number were 19k. The enduring story of this war is going to be the amazingly high (already 15k+) number of seriously wounded veterans who are going to require million of dollars and lifetimes of medical attention. The reason A

Lou: Potential worse than nothing

Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:25:18 EST
If Sheehan's son had been killed in Afganistan, it might be worse...not that we shouldn't be there, that's where we should be focusing our efforts. I believe that had we used the resources wasted on Bush's little adventure going after the real perps

pO157: Out of curiosity...

Sun, 3 Jun 2007 19:56:39 EST
If Spc. Casey Sheehan had been killed on the front in Afghanistan do you think that would have changed the results of the poll? What about Ms. Sheehan's original jaunt into activism?

Lou: Vietnam ahead on points

Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:25:50 EST
According to this site the count of deaths at the 4 year mark was 19,365. Certainly much more bloodshed than we enjoy now in Iraq.
It's hard to say about the publishing of said go

zyxwvutsr: Re: Agreeing in spirit

Sat, 2 Jun 2007 12:56:05 EST

Were there more "embedded" journalists in 'nam, or were the ones on the front just more apt to publish gorey video than now?
There was far more gore, by any measure, to talk about in the Vietnam War than in Iraq. About sixtee

pO157: Re: Agreeing in spirit

Sat, 2 Jun 2007 09:16:54 EST
Were there more "embedded" journalists in 'nam, or were the ones on the front just more apt to publish gorey video than now? Or was it just that society was not "desensitized" to the violence as some claim we are now?

thefadd: Re: Agreeing in spirit

Sat, 2 Jun 2007 02:59:43 EST
Don't discount the effect that daily images of death in Vietnam and images of caskets being flown home had on people in coming out actively in revulsion to the violence perpetrated on others by their government. If we had such images pushed on us daily, th

Lou: Agreeing in spirit

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 19:04:55 EST
One would think that would have an effect...if Americans actually cared. Oh sure, we give Bush low marks for just about everything, but by and large, that's where it ends. The war isn't touching enough people directly...funny thing too what wit

Jackkeefe: Re: From the subq

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:43:21 EST
only served to strengthen Bush because it helped people to understand that so many of the hard-core antiwar folks are almost completely divorced from reality.
There is something to that, at least as it relates to me, whose only recently come arou

zyxwvutsr: Re: I don't know Ken.

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:18:27 EST

...what do you have to say about the architects of the war that cost Sheehan her son...?
Normally I would wait for a discussion that was about "the architects of the war" before going out of my way to write a comment about th

thefadd: Re: The debate won't be affected

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:17:28 EST
If anyone really wanted to end the war, they'd be parading the armless, legless and faceless vets on television or at least youtube every day.

3fingerspointback: The debate won't be affected

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:10:00 EST
But hopefully the Anti-War movement will. It's important to read Sheehan's statement to understand that her frustration is not really with the Bush Administration or the American public

MayorBob: Re: I don't know Ken.

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 12:02:37 EST
This is how you describe her: "batshit crazy and mean-spirited" and her and her supporters are "lying and/or paranoid and naive." Even if I grant you that, what do you have to say about the architects of the war that cost Sheehan her so

rombuu: Re: Sheehan Done

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:49:11 EST
I'm not attacking her... someone said she never engaged in "the politics of personal destruction" and I was just providing a counter-example.
This is America.. she can call people whatever she wants and believe whatever crazy shit she wants to.

nmiguy: Re: Sheehan Done

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:20:49 EST
Rombuu, she may be hysterical, she may have a few loose screws, but cut the woman a break, she lost her son, who did Bush lose? Bush doesn't even go to any of the funerals. Won't even look at pictures of the caskets.
As far as I'm con

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:13:40 EST

When will the madness end?
It will carry on irregardless of our pour powers to stop it with.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Hah!

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:11:21 EST

Listening to neocons talk about sensitive and compassionate discussion is like listening to a David Duke lecture on race relations
If you say so. I personally do not pay much attention to either.

zyxwvutsr: Re: I don't know Ken.

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:10:24 EST

But, to me, speculation (lies if you must) about the reasons for the war made by those who had no part in its coming to be is several orders of magnitude less damaging than the lies and bullshit fantasy than an administration hell bent on ge

skeptic: Re: From the subq

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 08:59:22 EST
This whole discussion is turning into a spectacle of poor English usage. Consider: in comment #7, WMK employs a run-on sentence, which rombuu then complains about. In comment #18, rombuu then tells us "her and W have a lot in common" whic

MayorBob: I don't know Ken.

Fri, 1 Jun 2007 07:55:09 EST
But, to me, speculation (lies if you must) about the reasons for the war made by those who had no part in its coming to be is several orders of magnitude less damaging than the lies and bullshit fantasy than an administration hell bent on getting rid of Sa

Lou: Re: Well shoot...

Thu, 31 May 2007 22:14:55 EST
You, sir, are a vulgar, uncouth lout
Be that as it may...but I'm still right.

Lou: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 22:13:38 EST
Well dodged my friend...well dodged.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Well shoot...

Thu, 31 May 2007 22:07:27 EST

Stop wrapping your criticism of Sheehan in a cloud of misplaced pity...
It's not misplaced: the poor woman lost her son. That's a tragic event to any normal human.

...brand her a treasonous cunt and move on

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 22:03:02 EST

...Jim Hightower
Oh, come on: I said intelligent and coherent.

And those lies are...?
Well, for example, the idea the the war in Iraq was started for the benefit of a small subset of

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:58:11 EST

And what reality is that?
The reality, for example, where, for instance, Donald Rumsfeld is so obviously not a murderous tyrant that no mature, sane person would compare him with Stalin or Hitler.

Careful w

Lou: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:51:47 EST
Name two.
Molly Ivens...Jim Hightower.
No, Sheehan became part of the cacophony of lies. Anti-Bush lies are still lies, you know.
And those lies are...?

Lou: Hah!

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:47:51 EST
Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.
Listening to neocons talk about sensitive and compassionate discussion is like listening to a David Duke lecture on race relations.

Lou: Re: Well shoot...

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:43:43 EST
Pity is only condescension for the weak. Stop wrapping your criticism of Sheehan in a cloud of misplaced pity...brand her a treasonous cunt and move on or shut up. Z...there is no high road your folks can take in this war...best to just come ou

Lou: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:40:49 EST
so many of the hard-core antiwar folks are almost completely divorced from reality.
And what reality is that? The reality that Bush and Co. lied their fucking asses off to get us into the war...and once in the war miss handled on every leve

zyxwvutsr: Re: Well shoot...

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:37:40 EST

Does this include the rest of the neocon movement?
Do neocons deserve our pity? I dunno. I guess so.

Lou: Re: Sheehan Done

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:37:03 EST
I'd say her whole campaign would have to be branded a failure.
See, that's the big downfall for you Neocons...you can only think in the short term.

Lou: Yeah?

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:35:03 EST
""The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush,"
You know what? She's right. Oh sure...we love to hate folks like Osama Bin Laden and any fucking Iranian...but Bush wraps himself in an aura of patriotism and downhome folksy w

Lou: Well shoot...

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:31:12 EST
She's deserves no such thing. She is ignorant and spiteful and specious and probably not of sound mind. She deserves our pity, but not our respect.
Well hell, then. Does this include the rest of the neocon movement?

Lou: It's true!

Thu, 31 May 2007 21:29:31 EST
served to strengthen Bush
Lol! You really haven't met a fascist you did like, have you?

rombuu: Re: Sheehan Done

Thu, 31 May 2007 20:59:25 EST
Considering her whole platform was that the troops should leave Iraq, and considering there are more troops there than every before, I'd say her whole campaign would have to be branded a failure.
In fact, her and W have a lot in common, as much as she'd

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 18:33:05 EST

You don't believe in fighting fire with fire?
I do, actually, but that's because it's a proven method for forest fires. Fighting lies with more lies, however, is ineffective and will often have no other effect than to get one

keta: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 18:13:48 EST
Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.
You don't believe in fighting fire with fire?
And for the record, there have been plenty of intelligent, coherent anti-war voices. Sheehan's was heard only because her

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 17:53:23 EST
Perhaps it could have been that low before now if there had been any intelligent, coherent antiwar voices. Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.

keta: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 17:39:23 EST
Yeah, what's that "strengthened Bush" polling at these days? Something like 28%?

zyxwvutsr: Re: From the subq

Thu, 31 May 2007 17:27:16 EST

Yeah, plus she got part of her fame from criticizing Dear Leader
I'm guessing you don't know what bathos is. Sheehan got famous for criticizing Bush, that's true. But the content of her criticism was inapt and illogical and o

zyxwvutsr: Re: Sheehan Done

Thu, 31 May 2007 17:22:28 EST

...it took the death of her soon for her to gain a certain level of political awareness. However, once she gained that awareness
How's this for "political awareness"?
"We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right
keta: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 16:47:08 EST Yeah, becoming an outspoken focal point for those that consider the Iraq war effort to be nothing more than a neocon circle jerk contributed absolutely fucking nothing. I mean, most Americans still believe being in Iraq is the right thing. gerrymander: Sayonara, "Mother Sheehan" Thu, 31 May 2007 16:40:12 EST Remember, back when Sheehan became a going concern, how so many chose to wax rhapsodic about the "absolute moral authority" Sheehan had? Do you think any of them are going to follow her lead and stop their anti-war campaigning, the only intellectually hone nmiguy: Rombuu Done Thu, 31 May 2007 15:07:23 EST Rombuu, have you no decency? Cindy Sheehan may have been a shrill and annoting outspoken activist, but she was sincere, she suffered great loss and she led herself to ruin over her political beliefs. The woman lost not only her son, but her mar rombuu: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 14:59:04 EST I suspect your 3rd paragraph contains a run-on sentence. WMK: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 14:45:02 EST Where does moral authority come from? I would think one obvious form of contribution would be to raise a healthy child encouraged to believe in their country enough to serve in its armed forces. How is that contribution 'nothing'? rombuu: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 13:39:16 EST she was a vocal and tireless campaigner for her cause and did not engage in the politics of personal destruction. ""The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush," -- Cindy Sheehan Yeah, she's a doll. thefadd: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 12:55:21 EST Everyone in America is free to express their opinion. It is a sad fact for her that it took the death of her soon for her to gain a certain level of political awareness. However, once she gained that awareness, she was a vocal and tireless campaigner for h pO157: Re: Sheehan Done Thu, 31 May 2007 11:40:45 EST "and the notion that what you have to say is worth a shit just because you lost a child is revolting in the extreme." I agree. However the same tactic has been used by both sites. A quick Google search shows at least