US Immigration Reform: The Bill That Wouldn't Die (Trees And Things)

Steve Urkel: Re: Call me cynical

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:22:48 EST

Queen of diamonds.

rombuu: Re: Funny You Should Mention

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:37:46 EST

Three decades of hard work, and what's to show for it?

Well, the SCOTUS is in nice shape....

MayorBob: Re: Call me cynical

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:56:49 EST

This is just a test. Wet karma posted a diary entry which should explain what this is about.

MayorBob: Re: Call me cynical

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:53:40 EST

This is just a test. Wet karma posted a diary entry which should explain what this is about.

Steve Urkel: Re: Funny You Should Mention

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:30:20 EST

"Thanks to the diligent efforts of some true believers, and heaps upon heaps of corporate sponsorship (for think tanks in particular), the political landscape reversed"

Don't discount the extent Americans have rejected liberal policies. It's why after

Steve Urkel: Re: FDR

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 21:07:47 EST

Well said. The the threat of court packing managed to intimidate the courts. Since FDR we've been under a different constiutional order.

uncarved block: Funny You Should Mention

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:26:28 EST

FDR and LBJ, because they're at the crux of why I wonder why more conservatives aren't pissed off at W than there are*. After the debacle that was Nixon, conservatism in general and Republicans in particular were at their lowest ebb in quite some time. Tha

Jackkeefe: Re: FDR

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:35:49 EST

FDR permanently detached the government from its constitutional moorings, and his running for 4 terms is one of the things to hold against him.

Its hard to understate how dangerous and destructive his court packing policy was. Had he succee

Steve Urkel: Re: And Yet

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:13:05 EST

Reagan supported the efforts of the Federal Reserve to turn around the inflation of the 70's. As Alan Greenspan observed:

"My predecessor at the Federal Reserve, P

thefadd: Re: And Yet

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:12:27 EST

Those worked out just fine.

Thanks to the...Federal Reserve established by Woodrow Wilson (an unabashed idealist whose concepts all struggled in the short term but succeeded in the face of history) which is all but single-handedly responsible

zyxwvutsr: Es gibt nur ein Berlin

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:56:39 EST

...the massive deficits of Reagan...

I think it's safe to say that whatever damage was caused by Reagan's budget deficits was rather limited in scope. But it seems almost incomprehensible that you would cite deficit spending

Steve Urkel: Re: And Yet

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:57:34 EST

I agree, Jackson was an a-hole.

There was nothing wrong with the policies of Harding and Coolidge. The Great Depression was caused by the Federal Reserve (which was established in 1913 when Wilson was President - I forgot about him, but he should be in

thefadd: Re: And Yet

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:52:17 EST

I think it's difficult to include any President from pre-20th century because the stakes were so low. I might try to include Andrew Jackson because of the destruction his policies wrought so mercilessly on both the native peoples and the buffalo but he als

pO157: Re: Call me cynical

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:30:43 EST

Ehh, fences help and are a good idea in higher traffic areas, but I think the best thing would be to enact severe penalties with strict enforcement for anybody caught hiring illegals, especially in bulk.

After a few management staffers get tossed in th

Steve Urkel: Re: And Yet

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:43:01 EST

Worst is fuzzy, but as far as destructiveness goes he would be third behind FDR and LBJ (excluding pre-20th century Presidents, for simplicity). Special mention should go to Ted Kennedy, who was instrumental in the first big immigration "reform", making hi

Steve Urkel: Re: Call me cynical

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:39:37 EST

Fences are more cost effective than you think. Based on how much similar fences cost you could do it for about $2 million per mile. It doesn't have to be impregnegable. Employer sanctions reduce demand, fences and enforcement of existing laws reduce supply

nmiguy: Re: It's Possible

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:09:28 EST

Reid- like most (all?) Senate leadership- is a product of the system, and knows how to work it to a T.

Oh, because he's working the system so well now. I mean, Congress has been doing SUCH a good job since he's been "working it".

Reid an

thefadd: Re: Call me cynical

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:23:14 EST

We don't need no stinking fences. We just need really, really, really well placed volleyball schools.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Call me cynical

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:59:25 EST

building a 'fence' is not economically effective

What if it's really, really, really, really tall fence?

uncarved block: And Yet

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:35:29 EST

There are still those who would say this president isn't in the discussion for "worst president ever."

Amazing but true.

uncarved block: It's Possible

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:31:46 EST

I mean, I've noted before that Reid- like most (all?) Senate leadership- is a product of the system, and knows how to work it to a T. But the problem comes when you say, "in order to make it look (in the publics eye) like they were stalling on

thefadd: Re: Call me cynical

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:26:25 EST

It's strange that no one really credits the democrats with such political deftness. It would be a first in quite some time.

wetkarma: Call me cynical

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:13:10 EST

Here's my conspiracy theory:
Harry Reid yanked the bill on purpose in order to make the republicans look (in the publics eyes) like they were stalling on the issue. As much as the republicans want to secure the Hispanic vote for decades to come, the De

pO157: Re: If that happened....

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:09:35 EST

Ehh, you know. The usual commentary about how the real power behind the throne is in the hands of "The Chainsaw" Cheney, or some other random buisness executive, or whatever it is people say.

Steve Urkel: Re: If that happened....

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:39:41 EST

Who is it who would be pulling Bush's strings? The Illuminati?

pO157: If that happened....

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:26:46 EST

Look for him to do something to get back at the conservatives and Republicans who "betrayed" him before the term is over.

That really shoots to hell any theory that there really is somebody else pulling the strings behind the scenes, does

MayorBob: Perhaps this is what it all comes down to anyhow.

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:00:12 EST

But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid quoted copiously from the Dr. Suess book The Cat In The Hat to try to describe what sort of mess the Senate was turning the immigration debate into. Thus, a critical piece of national legislation is turned

Steve Urkel: Re: US Immigration Reform: The Bill That Wouldn't

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:16:58 EST

"he broke with the party base on this single issue"

This is not an ordinary issue, like, for example, excessive spending, which conservatives also disagree with. Those opposing the Bush amnesty bill see it as a choice between the preservation of nation

pO157: Re: US Immigration Reform: The Bill That Wouldn't

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:59:33 EST

What I think is most ridiculous about this whole process is I am finally starting to hear some of the vitriol and nasty rhetoric directed against Bush that is usually reserved for the "godless liberals" simply because he broke with the party base on this s

Steve Urkel: Re: US Immigration Reform: The Bill That Wouldn't

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:03:12 EST

Bush is behind this bill because he's a multiculturalist who loves Mexicans, and passionately believes in bringing more into this country. The fact that conservatives and the majority of Republicans oppose this lunatic bill is irrelvant to him.

thefadd: Re: US Immigration Reform: The Bill That Wouldn't

Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:46:18 EST

My take is, this bill is just all over the place and doesn't deserve to go anywhere. It's got gives to the left and right on the issue and doesn't present a coherent policy. I know this is shocking under a Bush presidency but, it seems like Bush is just be