http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021 At 11am Monday morning, members of the <a href="http://www.uaw.org/">United Auto Workers</a> <a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news/companies/gm_uaw_strikedeadline/index.htm?cnn=yes">walked off the job</a> and into the streets as contract negotiations broke down. en-us Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:46:24 EST Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:11:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#19 <blockquote><i>...does Ford and Chrysler have the same sort of layoff deal as GM?  If not, it must explain while they're doing so well</i></blockquote>Each contract is different, but broadly similar. Ford went through their pain four years ago when th Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:11:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#18 I'm curious...does Ford and Chrysler have the same sort of layoff deal as GM?  If not, it must explain while they're doing so well.<p> By the way...I'm glad to see you got your condescension account out of arrears.   Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:20:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#17 Whoa, you misunderstand me. The blame is on <i> both sides here</i> . The management for failing to read the market, and letting labor contracts get out of control. Sure, labor took what they could get and what was offered to them, but they should have bee Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:11:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#16 <blockquote><i>Except of course...lay them off</i></blockquote>Bravo. Once again you've cut to the heart of the issue. The problem is that past practice, i.e., under the newly-expired contract, when GM laid off workers, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007 Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:49:37 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#15 <i>"Look for the union label" now means "you're paying too much for what you're getting."</i><p> Funny thing...Japan has <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_Japan">labor unions</a> too.  American workers must suck more than I thought Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:38:54 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#14 <blockquote><i>They still make cars out of steel?</i></blockquote>Among other things: aluminum, plastics, glass, upholstery, rubber, and tender loving care. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:21:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#13 <blockquote><i>...it's a sure bet that the Big-3 have a long way to go before they build cars that are worth buying</i></blockquote>"Worth" buying? That's precisely the point: union-made cars cost more than they're worth <i>because</i> they're union-made. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:18:44 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#12 They still make cars out of steel? Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:12:43 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#11 Wise?  Probably...ethical?  I'll leave that one for the philosophers.  That being said, the GM workers are going to get it in the shorts.  I sympathize with the workers, but I have to agree with Wetkarma...the company holds the cards in Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:12:08 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#10 <blockquote><i>i.e. people?</i></blockquote>He ain't talking about steel. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:11:20 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#9 When the amount paid per hour and for benefits is far beyond what is paid to comparable workers in the same industry at other companies, then yes, it would be wise for a struggling corporation to look at cutting costs by returning those wages to industry s Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:58:21 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#8 <i>jettison a lot of these inflated costs.</i><p> i.e. people? Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:41:23 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#7 Ehh... tis true health care is settled. I was just bringing up that if the management really wanted to be devious and cut their bottom line, now would be a good chance to jettison a lot of these inflated costs. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:24:55 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#6 Can't find anything about wages yet...but it seems that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Japan">health care</a> isn't so much an issue (aside from the taxes that companies pay to subsidize the health care or course).  YMMV Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:46:20 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#5 Sure, it would be illegal to fire them all for striking. But hey, if GM happens to <a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,154089,00.html?iid=chix-sphere">hire permanent substitutes</a> for the duration of said strike then they can keep p Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:23:38 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#4 <i>Why doesn't GM just pull a President Reagan, refuse to negotiate with these folks, and bring in a bunch of new employees at 30%+ higher than the old non-union wages?</i><p> The two reasons which come immediately to mind are 1) it's illegal, and 2) bad b Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:10:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#3 The above post was supposed to have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATCO_strike">this link</a> embedded in the sentence referencing The Gipper. Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:25:51 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#2 Years from now I wonder if historians will look back on organized labor and say they had a hand on a knife that helped kill the golden egg laying goose. <p> <i> Management ought to hold out and pace its concessions -slowly- as time (for now) is really on i Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:24:31 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2007/9/24/16324/7021#1 My perspective says that GM Management is in a better position than the UAW on this one and its primarily because GM sucks as a car company. GM has around 3-4  weeks of inventory that dealers can sell before the company's revenues takes a hit -- this Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:54:14 EST string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/