Does "Medical Prayer" Work? (Trees And Things)

PenitenziAgite: Re: Is there something out there??

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:03:56 EST

WRT to point #2, this is well-known and well-documented. Practitioners of meditation can do all kinds of interesting things.

doom4rent: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:43:39 EST

X-Men? Come on - this is totally Star Trek.

Magneto's 1st Appearance = Sept. 1963

Star Trek's 1st episode = Sept. 1966

And I'm sure the episode you're referring was probably not the 1st episode.

/nerd

zyxwvutsr: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:14:56 EST

By "doctor" I assume you mean "fortune teller."

thefadd: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:03:40 EST

I haven't experienced healing at a distance but I have experienced diagnosis at a distance. I'll admit I was rather skeptical all around and it wasn't something I asked for or would have. My girlfriend went to the doctor and I hadn't been in awhile. He sai

zyxwvutsr: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:45:20 EST

It's true, I don't care about that link. This discussion is about healing-at-a-distance and other types of healing that use no substances or devices.

thefadd: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:33:19 EST

thefadd: How about turning the tables a bit...what about something accepted by the medical establishment but with little real demonstrated proof of existence--and tangentially similar to Shane's point: A Japanese team [2] measured magnetic fields from the palms of 37 subjec

joshv: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:15:20 EST

X-Men? Come on - this is totally Star Trek. Everybody knows that if you expose nanites to an accelerated baryonic chroniton gradient field, the nanites incorporate the resulting magnetic monopoles into their structure. When such nanites i

skeptic: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:56:37 EST

It's true, the whole idea of people who can generate their own powerful magnetic fields is strangely reminiscent of the X-Men character Magneto.

joshv: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:18:42 EST

Could you one or more controlled, double blinded clinical trial that substantiates the effects of pulsed electromagnetic field theory? I could not find such in your link.

The following sounds extremely fishy - "Various electrical

gerrymander: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:13:47 EST

If human beings can really generate tremendously stronger magnetic fields than had previously been thought possible, it would certainly be worthwhile to investigate the mechanism by which they do it, as well as the possible consequences or uses of such

skeptic: Re: Is there something out there??

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:28:45 EST
OK, you make a good argument that SOMETHING is out there - but what is it? If human beings can really generate tremendously stronger magnetic fields than had previously been thought possible, it would certainly be worthwhile to investigate the mechan

skeptic: PEMF

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:21:28 EST
I find it interesting that there is such a scientifically plausible explanation, which you have considerately quoted for us, of how a pulsed electromagnetic field could be helping bones to heal. Nothing about this suggests that any kind of mystical p

zyxwvutsr: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:54:46 EST

It is far more reasonable to push aside the evidence that the world is round since there is no scientific theory to back that up
Just because you've never heard of Copernicus doesn't mean the round-earth evidence has n

shane: magnetic fields

Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:29:12 EST
I found proof that magnetic fields can have healing effects. Still no understanding of how it works, but it does work: Pulsating electromagnetic therapy has been in use for the

joshv: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:52:10 EST
"It is far more reasonable to push aside the evidence that the world is round since there is no scientific theory to back that up."
The proponents of the "round earth hypothesis" had a slew of meticulously gathered observations on their side, that could

shane: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:07:25 EST
It is far more reasonable to push aside the evidence that the world is round since there is no scientific theory to back that up.
Sure... you could even hang people for believing that the world is round, but it doesn't change the fact that they w

zyxwvutsr: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:02:18 EST
That's why I didn't say only "medical science."

thefadd: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:46:30 EST
miraculous progress that medical and biological science has made over the past century
Personally my sympathy for the the concepts Shane is putting stem less from any belief in them and much more so in a lack of faith in the "miraculous progre

zyxwvutsr: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:12:57 EST

That's just blindly pushing aside evidence - it is just as bad as blindly believing in faith healing!
It is far more reasonable to push aside the evidence you mentioned since faith healing has no scientific theory to back it

shane: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:19:14 EST
That's just blindly pushing aside evidence - it is just as bad as blindly believing in faith healing!
They looked into nearly 200 studies and found 65% of them showed positive results when it comes to distant healing. Taking out the studies

MayorBob: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:53:15 EST
Only if you believe in it.

pO157: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:51:46 EST
Meta-analyses are not the best indicators, especially with something like this.
How many studies do you think were submitted (then approved and published) to scientific journals where they said "There is no benefit to prayer, etc?" Negative results ofte

shane: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:18:50 EST
Here's something to think about:

Benor also comments on a meta-analysis of healing studies in the June 6, 2000 issue of Annals of Internal Medicine, assessing the effects of distant healing (prayer, non-contact Therapeutic Touch, and other t

shane: Re: Is there something out there??

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:09:15 EST
But wait, there's more interesting stuff on that scientific evidence page.
1 - PEMF uses evidence of what frequencies heal cause healing to heal people. It's a mechanic

shane: Re: Is there something out there??

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:23:05 EST
You're such a skeptic! heh...
I never would have believed most of these stories and didn't think anyone else would either. I'm surprised no one came out and called me crazy! My mind is far from made up on this issue - most of these thi

thefadd: Prayer Vs. Laughter

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:49:43 EST
Laughter is actually somewhat more extensively studied and documented as having a positive medical impact than prayer. Stress, at the other end of the spectrum has been even more conclusively demonstrated to have deleterious medical effects. In an odd way,

thefadd: Re: Is there something out there??

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:42:12 EST
I think that the reason why scientists aren't hot on the trail of the mysterious life force and other mystical phenomena which might be imagined to affect people's health, is that the evidence for such things is very poor, and there are lots of other re

gerrymander: burn, baby, burn

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:44:02 EST
Or, at least not until I can bribe the Geological Survey people to declare my apartment a volcano.

secretpath: Dancing for an Angry God

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:07:20 EST
There was a NY Times article about medical prayer a while back. It mentioned some studies that showed negative effects from prayer and also gave some of the possible explanations that the o

skeptic: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:46:23 EST
I believe that people who are ill do benefit to some degree from knowing that there are other people who want them to get better. This does not require prayer! I do not seek supernatural aid for sick people because I don't believe in the supern

secretpath: Magical Thinking

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:41:23 EST
The "Hundredth Monkey" story is not so much an experiment as a myth.

skeptic: Re: Is there something out there??

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:35:54 EST
I think that the reason why scientists aren't hot on the trail of the mysterious life force and other mystical phenomena which might be imagined to affect people's health, is that the evidence for such things is very poor, and there are lots of other resea

joshv: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:31:36 EST
I am all for studying the placebo effect. I am all for studying prayer in the context of the placebo effect.
But if you are going to study the effects of prayer in people who do not know they are being prayed for - there can be no placebo effect -

joshv: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:19:50 EST
Ok, then I propose a new study. Let's study the effects of joshv thinking about purple elephants on cancer patient outcome. We will set up two five year periods, one where I think about purple elephants diligently, for at least an hour each day

Coelacanth: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:54:49 EST
Praying by someone who is ill, or praying for someone who is ill with their knowledge, certainly has psychological effects one way or the other. Faith is a powerful thing, I do not begrudge anyone their particular beliefs, and it is clear that the me

shane: Is there something out there??

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:31:20 EST
I think this is really part of a bigger question - is there something out there that we don't know about or don't understand? Call it god, aliens, reiki, energy healing, spirit healing, placebo effect, etc, etc... the label doesn't really matter. &nb

novy: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:36:29 EST
Worrying, no. I thought Krucoff sounded batshit crazy worrying about "safety issues" involved in prayer since that would assume "miraculous component" that almost certainly doesn't exist. But his take won't have any impact on medicine or religion, and I of

novy: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:31:07 EST
You mean because they come up with "results" that seem impossible to your way of thinking? Since human beings already know everything about everything, "impossible" results always prove that "some scientists don't know their experimental design & stati

novy: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:27:14 EST
Do we need to think about psychological aspects of illness? Might understanding mind-body connection lead to quicker cures for disease?
I refuse to think about it. Next question?

novy: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:25:02 EST
Scientists don't understand "placebo effect" either. Neither do you. They don't even agree whether placebo effect can actually cure physical ailments or just reduces subjective elements like pain. With no real knowledge in this area, how can studying effec

gerrymander: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:19:49 EST
Dr. Mitchell Krucoff concluded that "even well-intentioned intercessory prayer must be scrutinized for safety issues at an equal or even higher level than efficacy measures."
Does that sound worrying to anyone else? Because it does to me. I have

Coelacanth: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:08:50 EST
There are plenty of religious doctors and scientists, so I'm not that surprised they studied it.
However, I am disturbed there are studies that "show" either positive or harmful effects, because that indicates some scientists don't know

joshv: Re: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:39:14 EST
I am simply amazed that scientists waste their time studying the effects prayer absent the placebo effect.

pO157: Does "Medical Prayer" Work?

Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:28:17 EST
No.
Next question?