Picking the Low-hanging Fruits of Our Nation (Trees And Things)

Shy Elf: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:47:00 EST

I would consider military service more dangerous than fishing, but it's because of the higher chance of disability and not because of the chance of death, which is a bit lower. If we were in a situation with a casualty rate more typical of a war, we

Shy Elf: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:43:49 EST

Actually, since it didn't have military figures at all, I was using it only for the civilian figures and taking military casualties and dividing them by the size of the force to compare.

thefadd: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:51:46 EST

That's an excellent point. I think the armed forces must also realize then that the people recruited by those ads are going to need all the character building and life lessons that are offered at such physical cost.

Lou: Striking fear into the hearts of our enemies

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:06:28 EST

There is an upside to the low hanging fruit idea. Imagine the mass surrender* by an enemy that is faced by a battalion of Lyndie Englunds.

*Of course, there would also probably be mass slaughter after the surrender...but hey, this is war and war i

Lou: Re: the draft

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:02:36 EST

the military recruitment offices would be flooded with patriotic citizens wishing to defend their country.

As they were after 9/11. Pity that those brave young men and women found themselves in a country other than the one responsible for t

skeptic: the draft

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:29:56 EST

I have a fundamental philosophical problem with the draft, which is that it is a form of involuntary servitude, also known as slavery, which is unconstitutional in the US as well as being highly immoral and unacceptable.

I also believe that if the US is

pO157: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:15:49 EST

The chart you reference is derived from labor statistics from 2000. I assume the risks facing a soldier in peacetime are exponentially lower than those faced by the armed forces abroad right now.

zyxwvutsr: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:33:19 EST

cuz doctors hardly ever catch teh gay

If you say so, Jimmy, but my conclusion came from the fact that for every doctor there are dozens of other medical specialists in the Army.

Shy Elf: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:20:17 EST

So what other jobs come with free room and board nowadays? What other jobs can you get so easily that pay so well? So long as you're young and single and don't need another house, the pay is really isn't that bad unless you're comparing it to

Dvandom: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:27:14 EST

Giant monster robots are either mechanized infantry (if they can't fly) or air cavalry (if they can). Either way, Army.

JimmyHavok: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:23:12 EST

I doubt there were more than a couple.

cuz doctors hardly ever catch teh gay.

JimmyHavok: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:17:00 EST

Made me laugh!

port1080: Re: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:54:26 EST

What's interesting is that the Army realizes it can't pay troops a competitive wage (and has since the 1970s). That's why military recruiting ads aren't like traditional recruiting ads for business positions. Instead of talking about salary or benefits,

gerrymander: Remember: Giant. Monster. Robots.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:22:11 EST

I always thought "Zoltar" had a nice ring to it.

MayorBob: In that case, are you changing your user name?

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:02:43 EST

You know who should go off to war? The same folks that voted a war-mongering president into power.
Speaking as a person who voted for Bush twice, I'd be totally OK with that -- on one condition: we get to fight the way we wan

Shy Elf: End Strength

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:32:27 EST
I've been seeing claims that this is the longest war without a draft since the Revolutionary War, but of course it is more of a police action than a real war, and casualties are relatively low. This, combined with the 15 month on 12 month off rotatio

gerrymander: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:52:56 EST
You know who should go off to war? The same folks that voted a war-mongering president into power.
Speaking as a person who voted for Bush twice, I'd be totally OK with that -- on one condition: we get to fight the way we want. None of this

zyxwvutsr: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:37:32 EST
I don't think there is any need to have a "doctor draft" even if all 50 of the 2005 discharges of medical personnel were physicians. But I doubt there were more than a couple.

zyxwvutsr: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:35:02 EST
Linking gay discharges to the "doctor draft" idea would seem to indicate that there is a severe shortage of doctors because so many gay ones are being kicked out. I was just wondering how many of the 50 or so medical personnel given homo-discharges in 2005

profwhat: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:29:52 EST
What's the number that will get you to agree with me?

Lou: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:27:55 EST
And this matters why? It seems that the military can't afford to kick out anyone...much less those with critical skills just because they're teh gay.

thefadd: Re: even for the Canadians.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:22:08 EST
Yes, non-US citizen, documented permanent residents. I'm talking about Mexican-Mexicans and extending citizenship benefits to their families in exchange for service and/or making people citizens as soon as they sign up if they want, instead of simply reduc

zyxwvutsr: Re: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:01:19 EST
How many of those 334 were doctors?

profwhat: "Doctor draft": First...

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:40:16 EST
Before beginning a "doctor draft," consider re-enlisting the 334 doctors, nurses and mental health specialists who were discharged from military service because of their sexual orien

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:23:43 EST
Maybe I can get leave from my post in Afghanistan long enough to get over to Iraq and ask all those Bush voters, "What the fuck were you thinking?"

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:13:40 EST

Your idea is to send an avowed anti-war person to a war zone
Only because your nation is at war and by being Canadian you are, to some extent, responsible for that.
My idea was to send those most wanting war to

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:01:31 EST
What's so different about my idea that you should be compelled to join the Canadian Army and "go off to war" in Afghanistan?
Only the gist, z.
Your idea is to send an avowed anti-war person to a war zone. My idea was to send those most

zyxwvutsr: Re: even for the Canadians.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:38:53 EST
I knew that, but I think thefadd is proposing allowing illegal immigrants to enlist, or maybe just opening up some American Foreign Legion recruiting centers south of the border.

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:37:06 EST

Now you're proposing that today we're going to Hong Kong, but first we're going to the zoo
No, you misunderstood what I wrote. I said that you should go to Afghanistan and serve in the Canadian Army. I'm not goi

profwhat: Re: even for the Canadians.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:32:58 EST
You guys realize that non-US-citizens are allowed to enlist in the US military...right?

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:22:18 EST
Let's see. I proposed that those who most scream for war should be the ones to wage it. Somehow, that idea got under your skin, but not nearly as much as the fact that I'm not even American, and how dare I have an opinion on who should serve i

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:00:52 EST
Fine. I think you, I mean you, personally, should be in Afghanistan right now, serving in the Canadian Army.
Does that idea make any sense whatsoever?

zyxwvutsr: Re: even for the Canadians.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:58:59 EST
There's no need to start a draft, so the Mexican idea isn't worth discussing.

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:46:29 EST
Oh come on, z, that's horseshit and you know it. This is a discussion board, fer chrissakes, and we all throw out opinions about all sorts of things. By your above logic your opinion about anything not American should be ignored. I

thefadd: even for the Canadians.

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:38:59 EST
I think we should let the Mexicans in before starting a draft and I don't see where that wouldn't be a win-win.

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:16:21 EST

...absolutely deaf to anyone living in the free world who doesn't carry your water
Not at all. I just don't think any American should pay attention to a Canadian's opinion about whom should serve in the US armed forces. I wou

thefadd: what a prankster

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:56:57 EST
that's a good one.

thefadd: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:55:53 EST
Er, yes. Why not?

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:32:39 EST
How utterly American. Self-proclaimed "leaders of the free world", but absolutely deaf to anyone living in the free world who doesn't carry your water.
Thanks for the reminder.

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:20:59 EST
Ah, gotcha. Well, I guess we'd better disregard anything you have to say about who should fight for the US.

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:16:02 EST
No. Did you ever vote for Jean Chretien?

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:12:26 EST
Did you ever vote for Bill Clinton?

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:07:19 EST
Why not? After all, the Iraqis are going to welcome Americans as liberators! It'll all be over before the you know it! Two weeks - tops! And it'll only cost a buck ninety-nine!

zyxwvutsr: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:57:47 EST

You know who should go off to war? The same folks that voted a war-mongering president into power
Even the women?

keta: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:55:33 EST
You know who should go off to war? The same folks that voted a war-mongering president into power. I'm guessing Bush doesn't get re-elected in '04, what with his "base" off doing his busy work.

gerrymander: Re: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:21:18 EST
To get an army that's more representative of the nation, you need a war that people are actually willing to fight.
Of course, that hurdle is so much easier to clear when the media is functioning as the propaganda arm of the US instead of the US'

Dvandom: A draft isn't enough to remove classist bias

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:10:00 EST
Consider the last time we had an active draft, in Vietnam. Anyone with money and social standing could find legal ways to avoid being drafted, and could afford the less legal means if it became necessary. As a result, the conscripted army was p

MC Nally: Re: Picking the Low-hanging Fruits of Our Nation

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:21:37 EST
Low hanging, yes, but they object to "fruits."

Territan: Support Our Savings-- er, Troops!

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:26:16 EST

thefadd: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage ... For, you know, putting their lives on the line and such. Perhaps they could even do it consistently.

Are you sure about that? I mean, that sounds an awfully lot like

thefadd: Maybe They Should Pay Them A Decent Wage

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:38:59 EST
For, you know, putting their lives on the line and such. Perhaps they could even do it consistently.
Anyone who honestly believes that a draft ought to be put in place because it will discourage warfare is welcome to join me at the poker table at any

pO157: Hypothetical

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:28:54 EST
Lets say for a moment the current system of asking doctors and nurses to sign up for the military, guard or reserve after their residencies or education in exchange for loan repayment, or acce

PenitenziAgite: Re: Picking the Low-hanging Fruits of Our Nation

Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:16:27 EST
I am reading the second installment of The Liberation Trilogy. One constantly reads about draftees and volunteers in the U.S. forces who were classmates at Ivies and other great colleges, professionals