Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout (Trees And Things)

JimmyHavok: Re: Should be...

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:15:49 EST

Heck, unicorns in the garden could do a better job.

joshv: Re: Should be...

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:46:07 EST

Invisible pixies look like they might have a leg up on the government, competence-wise.

pO157: Re: Should be...

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:06:05 EST

You're right. With all this interference and government attempts to "save" the marketplace we will likely never see a free commerce system.

JimmyHavok: Re: Should be...

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:35:29 EST

letting the free market figure it out

Maybe the invisible pixies could have helped, since they live in the same place as the free market.

pO157: Should be...

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:48:10 EST

"and not letting the free market figure it out was a horrible idea."

skeptic: Re: a failure at the top

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:02:34 EST

Well, since the whole point, for the automotive executives, of doing what they had to do would have been to avoid running the company into the ground, I would not include running the company into the ground as being among the things that might have had to

joshv: Re: a failure at the top

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:40:32 EST

Really? So the UAW would have negotiated themselves down to Toyota/Honda level salaries and benefits with any of the big three after anything short of bankruptcy?

Do whatever they had to do? Even if that means running the company into the gr

skeptic: Re: a failure at the top

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:33:30 EST

Actually, faced with the prospect of plant closure or the bankruptcy of the entire company or an entire industry, even greedy labor unions have been known to make compromises and to re-negotiate contracts. In any event, it was the responsibility of t

pO157: Threadjack!

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:27:56 EST

So wait, why is this solution cool for the autoindustry but not for the mortgage crisis? Let 'em fail! Tough cookies! Etc!

I would really like to know, especially since I was excoriated for saying a bailout and letting the free market figure it out was

T Slothrop: Re: Staring us in the face

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:03:35 EST

I wish i could have rated your comment as +5 "inadvertently serious", but alas that is beyond our current abilities. Let's say that I fully expect a very close version of just what you described to be coming to an auto industry near you Real Soon Now(tm),

joshv: Re: a failure at the top

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:23:18 EST

So the UAW has no culpability? Or what about our cowardly Congress, which, lacking the political will to do what most every other developed nation does (tax the hell out of gas), instead imposed draconian top down regulations that mandate a particula

1fastdog: a failure at the top

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:23:58 EST

Saddled with a high cost, inflexible workforce, they had no choice but to produce high margin vehicles. They literally can't afford to build low margin small cars. To add insult to injury, CAFE forced them to build more small cars than they

joshv: Re: Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:35:14 EST
"GM's biggest problem isn't the union cost structure, with its retiree health care for many more retirees than the company currently has workers. Labor costs aren't that big of a fraction of auto prices anymore. They're biggest problem is payin

Shy Elf: Re: Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:57:07 EST

The loan value is $25B, which is different from the size of the gift, but at 5% interest, it's certainly a gift. When Congress passed it, they thought that the auto companies would get the money soon, but due to budgeting de

profwhat: Re: Staring us in the face

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:28:35 EST
It is hard to see a solution to this mess that doesn't involve scrapping the union contracts. I'm not sure you have to bust the UAW completely, but you do need to radically reshape the labor costs these firms face. One reason why they favor big

joshv: Re: Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:28:44 EST
"The US auto industry could have tried to develop cars with better gas mileage, less pollution, electric motors, greater reliability and greater affordability, and so forth, but instead they continued to emphasize the traditional but outmoded values of big

Lou: Staring us in the face

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:41:39 EST
My plan is simplicity itself. Let the car companies tank...a speedy ride on the bankruptcy express. Then, venture capitalists from Dubai buy up the remains for pennies on the dollars. Then, they rebuild/move/expand factories in the south.

skeptic: Re: Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:52:54 EST
The US auto industry has been gradually declining for at least 35 years, since the Japanese started to build better cars than they did. The US auto industry could have tried to develop cars with better gas mileage, less pollution, electric motors, gr

MayorBob: Re: Detroit's Hot 2009 Model: The Federal Bailout

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:51:59 EST

The auto industry got a $25 billion gift and now they want double that.

The AIG "loan" was only supposed to be for $80 billion and it looks like it will be double that.

That $700 billi