http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849 If the Big Three automakers want a piece of the (US)$700 billion bailout Congress has its icy grip on, they have until December 2nd to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a555iICMi8xY&refer=home">come up with a plan</a>.  What the automakers are looking for is a bridge loan to get them to the point in time when credit markets loosen up to the point they can borrow enough money to continue operating.  The only other alternative on the table right now en-us Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:15:27 EST Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:20:51 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#25 I agree with this. The government would be much better off taking the money and using it to seed several start ups. Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:20:51 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#24 Shouldn't we be figuring out what our limit is before we start doling out cash (too late now, I know)? The $700B bailout that was supposed to stabilize our economy was apparently not enough. Now state governors want cash. When does it end? Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:50:51 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#23 <i>Honestly, when will it end?</i><p> I dunno, but I don't think it's a good idea to put 3 million people out of work. That costs a boatload of money, too, and with nothing tangible to show for it. There are no "good" solutions in this situation. Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:01:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#22 The history of this country is filled with corporations who have failed. Life has gone on, it is painful, it sucks, but eventually it has to work itself out. Otherwise, what do you suggest? What if The Big 3 go to congress in 6 months and say "Hey, the bai Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:48:24 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#21 <i>I'm not really comfortable with allowing a bailout simply because these CEOs portend to hold the economy hostage.</i><p> Like it or not, a very large sector of our economy depends on the big 3.<br> Think not? <a rel="nofollow" href="http://answers.yahoo Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:40:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#20 <i> Mostly, the argument goes, because it's more than just the big 3 who'll go down if they don't get help. There's certainly lots of other suppliers, manufacturers, etc from other industries that will go down with them. That's a lot of jobs lost and a lot Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:46:32 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#19 <i>Why should the Big 3 be deserving of a government bailout</i><p> Mostly, the argument goes, because it's more than just the big 3 who'll go down if they don't get help. There's certainly lots of other suppliers, manufacturers, etc from other industries Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:27:04 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#18 <i>Your points, as always, are well taken. However, if accepted it just boils down to an argument that the company is just "too big" to let fail. Why should the Big 3 be deserving of a government bailout simply due to size when we would all demand the same Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:13:32 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#17 Your points, as always, are well taken. However, if accepted it just boils down to an argument that the company is just "too big" to let fail. Why should the Big 3 be deserving of a government bailout simply due to size when we would all demand the same be Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:09:59 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#16 The notion that US autoworkers are excessively well paid is largely a canard.  The $70 an hour figure <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682">that is bandied about is largely a result of Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:44:17 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#15 Tens of billions of dollars in bailout cash to a company with <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.heritage.org/Research/economy/images/wm2135_chart1.gif">outrageously high labor costs</a> compared to its competition. These companies have saddled themselves Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:33:45 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#14 <i>I think the company stands a better shot of solving its long term problems via court order and bankruptcy</i><p> You're more than welcome to think that, but you still haven't made a convincing argument for why it's so.  Again, just sayin' Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:27:22 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#13 <i> That's a rather weak argument to bet the future of one of America's largest corporations on. </i><p> As opposed to giving failing corporations billions of dollars, the same corporations whose only real major change in their business practices is going Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:25:30 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#12 <i>They are afraid that their customers, many of whom are still buying ginormous SUVs and making other foolhardy money decisions, will be smart enough to follow the news and connect the dots? I'm sorry, but I don't have much faith in the average consumer.< Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:16:42 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#11 Right now, I'm driving an Oldsmobile, and we know what happened to them.  Ditto for Plymouth.  Pontiac, Buick, Mercury look to be headed to the same fate.  <p> I went out shopping for a new car last month, and have my heart set on a Honda Fi Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:47:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#10 <i> The big reason is that they're afraid that if they declare bankruptcy, people will stop buying their cars.  </i><p> They are afraid that their customers, many of whom are still buying ginormous SUVs and making other foolhardy money decisions, will Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:58:08 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#9 The big reason is that they're afraid that if they declare bankruptcy, people will stop buying their cars.  Chapter 11 (which allows for reorganization) is just one step away from Chapter 7 (which requires liquidation).  A large part of buy a car Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:49:40 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#8 I'm not being facetious. I'm serious.<p> They have a major problem with labor costs and legacy issues. It's obvious the unions won't give up their cash cow. Bankruptcy court could be the best way to address these problems. It's not like they are lacking in Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:40:37 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#7 Pretty much, yeah. Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:22:08 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#6 Does that explain why auto companies are expected to have a plan while the financial sector does not? Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:31:25 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#5 Banks need to have cash reserves <i>and</i> operating capital to stay in business; manufacturers only need operating capital. Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:12:28 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#4 I'm wondering what the utility of a recovery plan might be myself.  One one thing, the automakers are looking to borrow $25 billion for three months.  I highly doubt the auto industry is going to right itself in three months.  By the time th Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:17:58 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#3 The idea to give a $10,000 tax deduction on the purchase of new cars would certainly help sell more cars.  Given other goals, such as reducing C02 output, is this really something we want to do?  There are many ways to improve this plan while try Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:15:12 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#2 I heard something interesting on the drive in from work.  The reporter mentioned that Congress was looking for the Big 3 to have a plan before they coughed up the money.  All well and good...but then he asked the person he was interviewing if the Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:30:37 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/11/25/93159/849#1 <blockquote>Uh, songofthepogo? Tesla are an American car company. They design and build the cars in Silicon Valley.</blockquote><br> yes, i'm fully aware of that, logan.  i was merely pointing out that the proposed alternative bill would apply to more Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:29:08 EST string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/