Six Million Big Lies (Trees And Things)

port1080: Re: Popular vote: Churchill vs. Hitler

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:22:00 EST

The normal way to become PM in GB is through popular vote: the head of the party winning the elections will become PM.

Yes and no - Parliament votes on who should be the PM, period. Sometimes this happens right after Parliament is elected,

sylvie: Popular vote: Churchill vs. Hitler

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:53:37 EST

Churchill ... was then voted PM by Parliament. This, by the way, is similar to the way which Hitler won his position,

Absolutely not. Since you don't understand the difference, let me explain:

The normal way to become PM in GB is through popu

sylvie: Lessons from the Defonseca case

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:47:21 EST

Lessons from the Defonseca case or
'holocaust' brainwashing for beginners, Part I: Survivors,

The Defonseca case is full of interesting insights.

Before her silly story was debunked, our gullible independent media generally called her a '

ms sue: Re: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:08:25 EST

everyone universally agrees that Hitler was a crazy, warmongering asshat.
Uuuh? Got your history lessons from the back of (kosher) Cornflakes packet ?
Or did the Jews drive him to do it?
Of course the Jews had their share of responsibilit

port1080: Re: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:46:22 EST
I'm not sure why, but I feel compelled to keep responding...
Strange argument: So wrt the grandfathers of 'modern' Germans, every lie can be told and every trash poured on them. It is not 'hate speech' since they are dead and not a race anyway.

port1080: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:33:09 EST
I guess once again I should have thought a little bit more before I posted. To completely clarify, I agree with this statement "We generally give the title "resistance fighter" to those engaged in asymmetric warfare against regimes which we oppose, and la

sylvie: Re: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:07:04 EST
sure, it was meant as a little joke in this sinister discussion. Don't hook on the title 'president', call it 'leader'.
But formally that little joke is true: the only leader elected as such was Hitler (Roosevelt was not president at the end of

port1080: Re: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:55:55 EST
By the way: at the end of the war, when, as we all know, democracy won over tyranny, there were 5 presidents: Stalin, Truman, Churchill, de Gaulle and Hitler. Only one of them was ever elected by public vote. Guess who? That's such a canard. Roo

port1080: Re: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:45:44 EST
As far as I know, in the US it cannot be shown in a normal cinema session open to the public. It is shown only to restricted audiences (history students, etc) and not without proper previous brainwashing (they call it 'contextualizing'). The mechanism

port1080: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:40:56 EST
Do you really believe that we, generally with some exceptions, support democratic regimes and oppose authoritarian regimes?
Yeah, I didn't really feel comfortable writing that but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it and I was writin

sylvie: 'brilliant' arguments

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:32:26 EST
I didn't expect arguments from 'holocaust' believers, even if classified "brilliant". After all, the 'holocaust' is a religious type of thing.
But I was sure the believers were polite, at least when they are obliged to be ...

sylvie: 'holocaust' evidence

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:27:43 EST
Umm, I'm pretty sure it's not banned in the US.
Depends on what you called 'banned'.
As far as I know, in the US it cannot be shown in a normal cinema session open to the public.
It is shown only to restricted audiences (history studen

Shy Elf: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:39:33 EST

I might point out that we generally give the title "resistance fighter" to those that oppose authoritarian regimes and lay the term "terrorist" on those that oppose democratic regimes, but obviously there are some exceptions to that.

port1080: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:26:33 EST
Consider the film "Jud Suess": based on historical fact but surely distorted to make the Jews look bad. What an outcry to denounce it as Nazi propaganda (it is still forbidden in most democracies including the US).

Umm, I'm pretty sure i

ms sue: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:55:25 EST
Since by now tons of 'holocaust' memories have been debunked as fraud, what makes you so sure that the rest of it is not of the same kind?
Since "Personal attacks and name calling are discouraged," I will refrain from the only substantive and app

sylvie: Re: Six Million Big Lies

Sat, 8 Mar 2008 13:47:43 EST
The whole discussion in this thread is unreal:

Is fiction a legitimate way to deal with history? Must memoirs be true?

Who should get the money made out of this fraud? (Some even suggest to give it to those who encouraged the fraud

wetkarma: Thought experiment

Tue, 4 Mar 2008 04:52:35 EST
I was in Amsterdam last weekend and walked by the Anne Frank house (and to show how weird my mind is, I thought the sex museum was less gauche). It occurred to me as I walked by however an interesting hypothetical:
What if Anne Frank's diary was fabrica

postillion: Re: fict or faction

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:06:10 EST
I would make several distinctions of memoir "ethics" in regards to this discussion.
When the memoir is meant to shed light on the events of a larger historical event, such as WWII, whether the writer fictionalized the facts of their life or not seems ve

thefadd: Re: fict or faction

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:48:04 EST
It's an interesting point to consider from both sides. I was recently speaking with someone who has written a memoir about some of the things her and her family have been through (far more contemporary than WWII). She is reluctant to divulge a lot of the d

ms sue: Re: fict or faction

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:51:24 EST
My only point was that when I read it, as part of a course on literary criticism, I was totally unaware, much like you, that there even was a question as to it being a memoir. I was not aware that the author apparently claimed that some parts were factual.

postillion: Re: fict or faction

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:52:59 EST
This review of a bio on Kosinski gives a balanced perspective on Kosinski himself:
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9610/myers.html
Koskinski himself veered a middle pat

JimmyHavok: fict or faction

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:59:06 EST
I googled it too, and the answer seems to depend on whether people like Kosiński or not. In fact, there's one guy who claims that he wrote the book rather than Kosiński. Where does that put it on the continuum between fact and fiction

skeptic: Re: Jimmy, the title's mine.

Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:38:05 EST
Fiction can have very implausible premises and still be artistically and/or commercially successful. What about the Harry Potter series? Even with the best will in the world, trying as hard as I can to suspend my disbelief, this series is too ridicul

postillion: Re: Truth During Wartime

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:57:37 EST
I agree with you on all counts except for one, and that is regarding fact checking and publishing houses.
Whether a publishing house is tiny (and certainly Daniels' operation is minute as a one person operation) or large as Random House (the single larg

uncarved block: Truth During Wartime

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 20:59:51 EST
Why did this book get published? Well, money and fame- and a confidence you won't get caught while you're alive- has been a good enough motive since James Macpherson faked the Ossia

ms sue: Re: Yet another one

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:41:12 EST
That was my initial reaction as well. But then I googled it.

JimmyHavok: Re: Yet another one

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:04:12 EST
I read Painted Bird as fiction. I wasn't aware that it was ever sold as fact, and it was so surrealistic that I doubt that anyone except the prey of televangelists would have believed it was true.

MayorBob: Jimmy, the title's mine.

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:23:28 EST
It was meant as a play on Frey's memoir and, in no way meant to imply that I don't believe the Holocaust didn't happen. I would have hoped you noticed that I mentioned in my explanation that I was referring to the six million Jews who did perish at t

JimmyHavok: I get the reference...

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:23:43 EST
...but that title sounds like Holocaust denial.
I think the book should have been sold as fiction, but it's ironic that a liar has met a thief along the way. In the larger scheme of things, the thief is the greater offender here.

postillion: Yet another one

Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:00:12 EST
These fake Holocaust memoirs seem to crop up enough that one wonders why it keeps on happening. Other noteworthy fake Holocaust memoirs are Binjamin Wilkomirski's Fragments and Jerzy Kosinski's Painted Bird.
Since they keep on selling so well, it