The following takes place between 12am and 11pm, on the day of the California presidential primary. (Trees And Things)

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Thu, 7 Feb 2008 01:35:46 EST

I got no dog in that hunt. So far so good. I don't think regional or local entities can do the things that the FAA, CDC or FDA or USDA does, though. Not to mention the National Parks and Forests, NOAA and the FDIC. The list goes on.

MC Nally: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:56:33 EST

Can he be his own man? Does he have anything he really stands for?

Do you mean does he have anything he really stands for apart from the unwavering belief that John McCain should be president? Because he's a real rock o

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:28:45 EST

But the 10th Amendment you don't like?

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:14:24 EST

Hey, I'm all for gun ownership. I'd be a hypocrite if I felt otherwise. If the FBI spent as much time on illegal firearm trafficking as they did entrapping people for as yet uncommitted terrorism crimes, I'd be all the happier.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 18:12:29 EST

Perhaps I've mentioned one of my definitions of a "liberal": an American who loves the Bill of Rights, except for the 2nd and 10th Amendments.

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:59:26 EST

you mean, they're strict constructionists? ;-)

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:56:31 EST

There was a period in 2000 were McCain was cast as an Arizona "Western Republican" without much concern for the moral intrusions of the religious right. Combine that with the standard fiscal conservative that came with all Republicans pre-Bush II and "stra

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:32:22 EST

If you would take the time to listen to them, you'd find that a lot of libertarians aren't necessarily against the government, for example, providing education. They merely think that the federal government has no business doing it.

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:05:17 EST

No, I pay, you pay, we all pay for the things that we need, that no single person has the resources to provide for themselves or anyone else.

I do not have the time to fix my little section of the street, maintain my little section of the

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:56:51 EST

I appreciate your clarification.

The trouble with 'strict constructionism', for lack of a better term, is that I fail to see why it's attractive, except as a justification to ignore stare decisis in cases that you don't agree with. In my vi

Jackkeefe: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:57:12 EST

He ws the firebrand libertarian candidate in '00

When has Mr. Campaign Finance Reform ever been a libertarian? On any issue? To my mind, McCain is fairly comfortable, and has always been comfortable, using the federal government's r

joshv: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:40:16 EST

I said Paul was a strict constructionist who is in favor of devolving federal powers. I did not say that all strict constructionists are so in favor, nor did I claim that the desire to devolve federal powers to the states is a defining characteristic

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:04:35 EST

And I quote:

I think it's a sign of the times when a strict constructionist who is strongly in favor of devolving federal power to the states is seen as extreme.

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 14:00:38 EST

Obama, to some degree, McCain to a lesser degree, Clinton I have my doubts about.

Surfing topics, we were discussing McCain a little bit in the chat last night and I just don't know where the guy really stands on stuff anymore. He was the firebrand l

pO157: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:41:16 EST

This is exactly why I think Paul or some libertarian candidate would be a good choice at this time. Some of his more eccentric ideas would get shot down by congress, and most of his more reasonable suggestions would be approved. Even if congress is 100% ag

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 13:32:53 EST

Eh, he only gets to be President for four years. I think everyone left and right agrees that after the largest expansion of the federal government in its history under Bush, the thing needs a hacksaw, not pruning shears. It's not like he's going to have ei

port1080: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:26:20 EST

It's up to the Democrats whom the Democrats nominate, and it's up to the Republicans whom the Republicans nominate. It is their party, not yours.

I see your point, but given the fact that we have an institutionalized two party system (I think

novy: Re: Exit polling

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:23:42 EST

Obama won Rocky Mountains, midwest, southeast, small states in northeast. Clinton won Latins and Asians (thus California, Arizona, and maybe New Mexico), Arkansas and states near Arkansas, and big states in northeast. They came so close to splitting delega

profwhat: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:52:01 EST

It's up to the Democrats whom the Democrats nominate, and it's up to the Republicans whom the Republicans nominate. It is their party, not yours. Now, if they are nice, they can invite you to play with them (as some states do), but requiring th

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:42:26 EST

I don't know how Delaware election law works, but in New Jersey you can be a "registered Independent" as well as "registered voter without party affiliation." It's probably easy to get confused when one fills out the form.

port1080: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:34:45 EST

No - that's why I specifically wrote independent with a lowercase "i". I know (at least, hope) you're being semi-facetious, but I taught an intro to American Government class, and it was pretty sad how many students (at least a third of the class, maybe m

port1080: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:29:57 EST

"not allowed to stick my nose in other people's business?"

Haha, very funny. This might be a valid complaint, if it weren't for the fact that a large number of states do have open primaries (or they allow you to declare your party on the day

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:33:48 EST

Delaware doesn't allow registered independents to vote in primaries

Can't you vote in the primary of the Independent Party?

zyxwvutsr: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:23:26 EST

I don't want to have to pay for every damn thing...

Can't someone else pay for the things I need?!

joshv: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:21:31 EST

Huh, did I say that a strict constructionist is one who favors devolution of federal powers? Nope.

pO157: I got disenfranchised.

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:52:36 EST

As a New York voter I wanted to go for Gravel. Sure, if Obama wins I'll probably vote for him in the end (depending on who else runs), but at this point I wanted my opinion registered that the Democratic party has not done its job in providing oversight an

pO157: Dude... Wait, what?

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:44:57 EST

Is he actually racist? Maybe not exactly - but he certainly had no problems associating himself with racists. I don't buy the excuse that sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend - you can't make those kind of alliances, even when you'r

profwhat: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:41:42 EST
I didn't vote today because I couldn't. Delaware doesn't allow registered independents to vote in primaries.
So, by "disenfranchised," you mean, "not allowed to stick my nose in other people's business?"

profwhat: Labels

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:38:50 EST
A strict constructionist is someone who favors the prosecution in criminal cases, and the defendant in civil cases, and adheres to the theory of the 'constitution in exile'.
Aside from Rehnquist's throwaway comment from a memo he wrote in his you

pO157: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 06:17:17 EST
Well, to be technical I doubt you'd see the USPS dissolved under a hypothetical Paul administration since it is authorized by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.
Also, I think it is unlikely t

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 02:22:06 EST
Racist, schmacist. I like government employees like postmen, cops and firefighters.
I don't want to live in a Libertarian wonderland. I have a job, and I don't wanna fix the potholes on my street. I don't want to have to generat

PenitenziAgite: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 02:14:45 EST
Sorry, but a 'strict constructionist' is not someone who favors devolution of federal power. A strict constructionist is someone who favors the prosecution in criminal cases, and the defendant in civil cases, and adheres to the theory of the 'constit

thefadd: Re: Mitt Romney's speech

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 02:01:13 EST
And the one's who are unhappy with Bush are voting McCain who most of the left is the most likely to be Bush III. There's no 'splainin' Republicans;-)

uncarved block: Down To The Wire

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 23:09:48 EST
at least on the Democratic side. California polls just closed as I write this, but it doesn't seem this is going to make any difference even tomorrow. The wins seem very scattershot, with some obvious results (Clinton in NY/NJ, Obama in Georgia) mixed with

Jackkeefe: Re: Exit polling

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:26:36 EST
According to the exit polls I've seen, Obama won AZ, MA, NJ and MO. As of now, it appears that he lost most of those states rather handily. Throw NH into the mix and it appears that there is a significant trend developing. I'm not aware o

uncarved block: Fluke Discovery

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:23:53 EST
Reason magazine apparently did a little digging, and came up with a theory that Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard were likely the authors of the worst content in those newsletter

profwhat: Mitt Romney's speech

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:39:56 EST
Just watched it. Mitt said that if "Washington" continues on its current course, America will become a "second tier" power. That's a striking statement from him; exit polls show that he gets the majority of voters who are happy with Bush.

joshv: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:18:23 EST
I think it's a sign of the times when a strict constructionist who is strongly in favor of devolving federal power to the states is seen as extreme. I think most of the founding fathers would have been quite comfortable with Ron Paul's positions. &nb

joshv: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:14:12 EST
I voted for McCain today as well, and I've come to the same conclusion you have regarding the general election.
If it's McCain against Hillary I'll vote for McCain - if McCain v Obama, I will probably vote Obama. I can't imagine we are the only tw

zyxwvutsr: Re: But Think of the Children!

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:07:35 EST

Why is it that when Hillary Rodham Clinton tells us her vision of the important things for the federal government to accomplish we simply don't believe her?
Why indeed

pO157: Re: Huckabee wins WV, Romney Caucus-blocked!

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:03:45 EST
Correction: Paul supporters swung their WV support to Huckabee in exchange for 3 national delegates.
A deal with the devil perhaps.

port1080: A few good webpages...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:56:35 EST
CNN's page w/Super Tuesday results & delegate counts
Yahoo's 2008 Presidential Race Dashboard - has lots of poll results, plus delegate c

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 18:19:46 EST
I'm sort of the inverse of you on this one. I don't care if he's *actually* a racist...only if he's *effectively* a racist. His views are "extreme" on all counts. For that reason very few of them will see the light of day in Washington. But that's exactly

Shy Elf: But Think of the Children!

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:38:32 EST
While flipping channels, I happened to catch Hillary speaking to the Yale Child Study Center, and when she talked about how children had always been h

port1080: Invitation to chat & watch the results come in

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:33:17 EST
Anyone who wants realtime chat about the results is welcome to join us in the TnT Chat Room. We'll be there all night.

port1080: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:52:24 EST
Is he actually racist? Maybe not exactly - but he certainly had no problems associating himself with racists. I don't buy the excuse that sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my friend - you can't make those kind of alliances, even when you're de

thefadd: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:43:32 EST
I just don't buy the Ron Paul racist meme, not even for a nickle. There's nothing in his political record or platform to suggest that he's got some hidden racially motivated agenda. Which one is the conspiracy theory again?

MayorBob: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 16:23:52 EST
As a registered Republican, I'll be voting for McCain as soon as I get to the polling place. Actually, I'm thinking about voting for Obama come the general election. If Hillary heads the Democratic ticket, I'll have to stick with McCain.

pO157: Re: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:40:57 EST
If I could have voted, I probably would have voted for McCain to help make sure he wins the Republican nomination, as he's the only R candidate that I can stomach (sorry pO157, but as much as I agree with some of Ron Paul's policies, I have problems vo

port1080: Disenfranchised in Delaware...

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:05:58 EST
I didn't vote today because I couldn't. Delaware doesn't allow registered independents to vote in primaries. If I could have voted, I probably would have voted for McCain to help make sure he wins the Republican nomination, as he's the only R candidate t

pO157: Huckabee wins WV, Romney Caucus-blocked!

Tue, 5 Feb 2008 14:59:56 EST
Paulites and McCain supporters defect en masse after 2 rounds of ballotting to barely keep the state from falling into Romney's hands.