Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks - Keep Your Managers' Mitts Out Of The Tip Cup (Trees And Things)

keta: Re: My Starbucks Tip

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:08:00 EST

Thanks for the chuckle.

I rarely buy coffee (not really my cup of tea, wot?), and when I do it's always just regular coffee. I feel no compulsion whatsoever to tip someone for pouring coffee from an urn into a takeaway cup, and making change. &nbs

logan: Re: My Starbucks Tip

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:04:44 EST

Speaking as a former coffee house employee I can say that if you are a regular who doesn't tip the actual caffeine content of your coffee can vary wildly.

At the time I poured coffee for a living I was an angry youth who didn't like my job and I must a

MayorBob: Another Foot Falls.

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:43:14 EST

For all of us who thought this case would only affect Starbucks in California, think again. Somebody filed a class action suit in Massachusetts (pdf doc) disputing

postillion: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:19:38 EST

True, there were the days before barista tipping.

thefadd: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:51:56 EST

Correct me if I'm wrong but Starbucks really popularized the tip jar on the counter. I suppose it was always a coffee shop tradition but it wasn't something that you saw everywhere you see now until the 90's and the starbucks explosion. While I suppose it

postillion: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:09:02 EST

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say anything about why you tip. I was just generalizing. So hope you weren't offended.

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:18:05 EST

The supervisor is supervising (assigning stations)

I think this is probably the best underpinning for the sort of moral argument joshv is asking for. If a supervisor is assigning stations, then he or she has the ability to influence the amoun

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:53:19 EST

The supervisor is supervising (assigning stations), and thus is an agent of the owner. The owner should pay him enough that he doesn't lose income by not getting a share of the tips, instead of paying him out of the tip jar.

joshv: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:48:17 EST

"You forgot half of the formula: "owners and agents." The supervisors are not owners."

I don't claim to know the legal definition of an "agent", but I seems that it could be stretched to mean any employee, if it means a hourly supervisor whose job

MayorBob: Re: In fairness to Jimmy.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:39:47 EST

Almost as soon as I posted my comment I saw your comment pop up. Great minds, or something like that, I guess.

port1080: Re: In fairness to Jimmy.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:37:11 EST

yeah, I didn't see that until I had already posted (actually, I think he posted it right about the same time I started writing my reply, so in fairness to me, when I was composing my thoughts he hadn't actually said it, yet).

MayorBob: In fairness to Jimmy.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:34:49 EST

I think he already answered that question downthread:

http://www.treesandthings.com/comments/2008/3/21/143539/916#26

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:34:38 EST

If the owner is personally tipped by a customer, then that is his money. If the money goes into a pool, then it isn't, any more than the profits of the enterprise belong to the staff.

Alright, I can handle that answer. That pretty much makes

JimmyHavok: Re: My Starbucks Tip

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:32:46 EST

The sizes at Starbucks are very easy to remember: large, humongous, and ambidextrous.

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:32:00 EST

The profits of the restaurant come from the efforts of the staff. Should the owner's wife split the profits with them?

No they shouldn't, because they're already getting paid for those efforts (particularly if we're talking about a coffee sho

JimmyHavok: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:31:21 EST

I tip because I appreciate the effort the workers are making. Yes, they get paid an hourly wage, but they get that no matter how lousy they are.

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:29:18 EST

You forgot half of the formula: "owners and agents." The supervisors are not owners.

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:27:28 EST

If the owner is personally tipped by a customer, then that is his money. If the money goes into a pool, then it isn't, any more than the profits of the enterprise belong to the staff.

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:25:17 EST

Let's say the owner's wife waits tables and gets tipped - should she take that money at the end of the night and give 100% of it to the other waitresses to split among themselves?

The profits of the restaurant come from the efforts of the staff.

PenitenziAgite: As a former supervisor at SBUX...

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:27:36 EST

I was responsible for counting and assembling tips. I did not allocate tips for myself or the other supervisor. I only adjusted the amounts according to how many hours each regular employee worked.

skeeter1: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:17:02 EST

"The question is, if the owner is actually serving customers (which is exactly the Starbucks shift supervisors were doing - they serve customers just as often as anyone else working there), then does he or she deserve to be tipped?"

I'll grant yo

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:28:08 EST

Meanwhile, the owner's son, who occasionally worked as a manager, was driving a new Corvette and a regular at the nightclubs. Should he have had a right to the tip jar? Fuck no.

I don't think you or JimmyHavock are getting what joshv and I

skeeter1: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:03:05 EST

"I agree, this seems a bit weird as you can easily imagine situations where the owner is actively serving customers as a waiter, host/hostess, or cook. In small businesses it's rare that an owner can just sit around and pay somebody else to do all

tomc: 1. Smile; 2. Press button; 3. Repeat.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:41:27 EST
I'm not accustomed to tipping under these conditions. Should I be?
I suppose it's one thing to consider tipping a barista who provides some interesting banter while he grinds, presses and pulls the coffee himself, but I fail to see the poin

keta: My Starbucks Tip

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:32:39 EST
When I order a "small medium roast coffee" and am told it's actually a "stupidpretentiousfuckingsizename" at Starbucks, I give my tip: "Small, medium, and large have always and will always work."
If I feel that wasn't tip enough, I also point out that o

postillion: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:13:48 EST
Hey, take it up with the dicks who decided a cup of coffee should cost more than $2.
Exactly.
The only place I tip for coffee is my local neighborhood joint because I sit there for hours on end on weekend and use their free wifi.

joshv: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:54:12 EST
By mandating that supervisors get a percentage of tips, Starbucks is paying them out of the tip jar. Starbucks should be paying their supervisors a wage good enough that they don't need the tips, not expecting to get by with paying them $9.75/hr b

joshv: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:50:58 EST
Hey, take it up with the dicks who decided a cup of coffee should cost more than $2. I am also the kind of dick who doesn't much care for barista chit-chat, even if it gets me my cup of coffee 30 seconds faster.

lakaien: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks - Keep Your Ma

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:07:57 EST
My wife worked at Starbucks as a shift supervisor for a couple of years, I know that when she was there that title earned her $1.00 more an hour than a regular barista, they essentially have no authority outside of assigning positions for the shift and kee

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:28:19 EST
Owners get the profit from their enterprise. They shouldn't be taking money out of the pockets of their employees, any more than their employees should be stealing from the till. I agree, but I don't think you get it - what I'm saying is, what a

MC Nally: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:11:18 EST

But if you aren't a regular, continue being a dick.
If I'm "a dick" for not realizing that buying a coffee at Starbucks is a tipping-expected situation, then so be it.
Frankly, though, I'm still not convinced that it is. Bu

JimmyHavok: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:51:52 EST
If you're a regular, then tipping puts you in the memory bank much more securely. After all, what a tip says is that you value the service you are getting, based on the formula money = value. I often have my drink waiting by the time I hit the

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:45:12 EST
Owners get the profit from their enterprise. They shouldn't be taking money out of the pockets of their employees, any more than their employees should be stealing from the till.

JimmyHavok: Re: tip ethics

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:44:02 EST
I am not following the jump from supervisor to owner.
By mandating that supervisors get a percentage of tips, Starbucks is paying them out of the tip jar. Starbucks should be paying their supervisors a wage good enough that they don'

joshv: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:11:43 EST
Yeah, I've never really gotten the coffee house tipping thing. Just as a matter of convenience, I used to tip whatever was left over from the $2 I gave them for my coffee, never more than 20 cents - I have enough dimes and nickles in my coin jar alre

MC Nally: Re: Judge Offers A Tip To Starbucks

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:28:42 EST
I don't want to seem like Scrooge here, and it's not that I don't believe in tipping for jobs where it's appropriate, but honestly this lawsuit was the first clue I had that tips are a substantial part of employee compensation at Starbucks. (However,

gerrymander: Re: Job Titles

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:00:18 EST
I am reminded that at my own company that the person right above me on the corporate ladder is an exempt employee, makes no over-time, makes only 10K more per year than me, and gets only a better title in exchange for a lot more hassle, more meetings an

joshv: Re: tip ethics

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:21:01 EST
It appears in CA at least owners are barred from dipping into the tip till. I agree, this seems a bit weird as you can easily imagine situations where the owner is actively serving customers as a waiter, host/hostess, or cook. In small business

port1080: Re: tip ethics

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:09:40 EST
if the "supervisors" are directly serving customers, then they deserve a share of the tips.
I agree, and I'd even apply that to owners - for example, what about a family owned diner where the husband cooks and the wife & kids wait & bu

joshv: Re: tip ethics

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:04:19 EST
"...but it's always been pretty clear to me that owners shouldn't be dipping into the tip jar. By putting the supervisors into the tip pool, Starbucks was doing just that."
I am not following the jump from supervisor to owner. The judge here

JimmyHavok: Starbucks pay rates

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:17:26 EST
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Starbucks_Corp/Hourly_Rate
Supervisors and managers only make a little more than the baristas. Even t

postillion: Job Titles

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:12:51 EST
This is a reaction to the Fortune article on this under the link "make this go away."
I currently work for Sbux as a Assistant Manager, and I have to agree that this lawsuit is ridiculous. Shift supervisors are considered managers, because they run t

JimmyHavok: tip ethics

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 12:44:33 EST
The question of whether a shift supervisor is just a glorified barista is a difficult one, but it's always been pretty clear to me that owners shouldn't be dipping into the tip jar. By putting the supervisors into the tip pool, Starbucks was doing ju