http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ethnicmajority.com/racial_profiling.htm">Racial profiling</a> is a nasty business.  It means that if you are black or brown, you are more likely to be stopped, questioned and searched by the police.  It means your civil liberties are less by virtue of your skin color.  When the profiling becomes blatant and offensive enough, it's time to go to court, as happened with Arizona back in 2001.  Rather than drag out things, the state Department of Public Safe en-us Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:49:04 EST Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:14:58 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#68 When the rules are so onerous, and so hard to enforce, you're going to get people violating them.  That's a fact of life.<p> I don't consider immigration violations to be <i>malum in se</i>, so it doesn't really upset me. Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:14:58 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#67 Yes I do. And I know several people wondering if they will have to leave because of visa shenanigans. <p> I would imagine that the people who went through hell to come legally here and played by the rules would object to other people not paying their dues. Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:21:57 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#66 I wonder if you know anyone who played by the rules?  My best friend went through hell to get his wife legal. Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:13:23 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#65 When will supporters of illegal immigration realize that flipping a border or sneaking ashore in the dead of night is not the same thing as legal immigration? Why is it so bad to ask people who want to join our country to play by the rules? Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:08:15 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#64 <i>first baldy</i><p> Huh?<p> We got <a rel="nofollow" href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Dwight_D._Eisenhower,_official_Presidential_portrait.jpg">this guy</a><br> and then there's <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.historyplace.com/specials/ca Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:21:42 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#63 <blockquote><i>I thought illegal immigrants were stealing jobs.  Now you say they don't get paid</i></blockquote>I never said they don't get paid. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:05:26 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#62 You won't see "real, permanent, immigration reform"  because it's near impossible to meet your conditions.  America has been a nation of immigrants since it was founded, and every generation has bitched about the current immigrants and how they a Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:22:16 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#61 The idea being that today's illegal immigrants quickly become tomorrow's citizens, especially when amnesty is on the table.   Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:39:41 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#60 Real, permanent, immigration reform is any reform which diminishes the immigration problem, does not reward illegals already here or encourage further incursions like the amnesty of the mid 80s. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:12:00 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#59 I thought illegal immigrants were stealing jobs.  Now you say they don't get paid.  I have a hard time keeping up with the argument when it changes so quickly. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:09:15 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#58 <i>where Frank is coming from</i><p> You can't expect the National Journal to quote Barney Frank accurately. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:07:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#57 <i>The quote about how the immigrants will vote Democratic (or whatever party legalizes them) is one of the real reasons why you will never see real, permanent, immigration reform in this country.</i><p> Illegal immigrants can't vote.  Make them legal Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:05:59 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#56 If the union deducts it from your paycheck (the one I was in for a year did) you need to have presented at least convincing documentation to your employer to get paid.<p> Unions can't recruit and enroll people who get paid in cash under table. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:19:50 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#55 See gerrymander's point. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:12:10 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#54 Union dues come from paychecks. If an illegal immigrant cannot get a paycheck then he cannot have dues deducted. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:58:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#53 There is truth to the idea that illegal immigration depresses wages for high school dropouts. If they can hire a bunch of illegals to work melon fields for cheap, why hire some dropout if he is going to demand $7 or $8 an hour? <p> The quote about how the Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:22:56 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#52 <i>I don't think that's the case, union members are pretty anti-immigrant. The Democrats and Union bosses decided that more low skilled immigrants meant more Democratic voters, and increased Democratic turnout and office holdrers meant union favoring legis Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:21:53 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#51 <i>illegal immigrants cannot join unions and pay union dues.</i><p> Which unions check for green cards?  I must have missed that rule when I was an ILWU member. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:20:02 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#50 Gotta love the ellipses and paraphrases in that "quote" of Barney Frank.<p> The Republicans see this as a divide-and-conquer issue.  They have no interest in anyone poor, whether they are white, black or brown.  These tears about how high school Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:16:10 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#49 <i> If the police officer does not stop the car, how does the police officer know who gets the ticket?  You can't haul a car into court, just a driver.  Anyone could be driving that car, not just its registered owner, right? </i><p> I think the p Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:56:11 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#48 <i>First, police should not be allowed to stop drivers for minor infractions. Broken tail light, 5mph over the speed limit, no seat belt, whatever - in those cases the police should record the license plate and the driver should get a non-penalty warning l Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:47:17 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#47 I don't either, but the article claims Latinos (many illegal) working out of these Home Depot parking lots are asking and receiving $12 an hour whereas the African-American man mentioned is getting passed over for jobs. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:46:46 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#46 <i> this case, sympathy and a feeling of solidarity simply outweigh the class based considerations,</i><p> I don't think that's the case, union members are pretty anti-immigrant. The Democrats and Union bosses decided that more low skilled immigrants meant Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:45:57 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#45 <i>illegal immigrants cannot join unions and pay union dues.</i><p> Slight correction: <i>known</i> illegal immigrants cannot join unions and pay union dues. Illegal immigrants with forged papers or stolen identities, however, have much more leeway. Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:40:45 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#44 <i>Do they honestly expect to just sit back and wait until all illegals are making $12 an hour before they agitate for their own position?</i><p> I don't envision illegal immigrants making $12/hour if US citizens could be hired for some amount between mini Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:11:24 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#43 <blockquote><i>You know what bothers me about these illegal immigration debates? Where are the unions who cover menial occupations and unskilled labor jobs? If they successfully lobbied for a massive crackdown on illegal labor their constituents would see Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:04:46 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#42 No offense to their position, but it is silly. You have a third world in Central and South America* with hundreds of millions of people willing to work in the US for those wages. Do they honestly expect to just sit back and wait until all illegals are maki Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:13:34 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#41 <i>The unions and the leadership of traditionally marginalized communities like the African-Americans should really be agitating for strict laws against illegals, but they are not. Their silence really doesn't make much sense to me.</i><p> Because it's not Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:53:15 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#40 You know what bothers me about these illegal immigration debates? Where are the unions who cover menial occupations and unskilled labor jobs? If they successfully lobbied for a massive crackdown on illegal labor their constituents would see huge wage gains Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:38:12 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#39 <i>Any other suggestions?</i><p> Mandate a $20/hour minimum wage for illegal immigrants. Include back pay if an employer is caught breaking the law. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:10:53 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#38 Ah, my apologies for making an assumption.  <p> Maybe you could get Donald Trump to bankroll your political campaign and fund you a pricey hair cut? Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:53:05 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#37 In NH the police should obviously not arrest drivers without auto insurance. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:20:55 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#36 Yes, you need a license to drive in NH.  What does that have to do with mandatory insurance and what difference the police would know? Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:32:18 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#35 Holy crap. Could that be any more patronizing? <p> I don't know much Spanish (but babelfish helps), but it seems to just include suggestions on how to party responsibly and how to drink safely at work parties (WTF?). No sense discussing politics or their o Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:03:12 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#34 Meant to include the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.maddlosangeles.org/">website</a>: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:50:53 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#33 <blockquote><i>You are not legally bound to insure your car in New Hampshire</i></blockquote>Do you need a licence to drive in NH? If so, then I think the police there would know the difference. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:50:21 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#32 <blockquote><i>I demand to know whether you have a gun hidden on you!</i></blockquote>Bad analogy. If the law required a gun license and I was walking down the street openly carrying a weapon, then I would expect the police to ask me if I had one. Why are Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:49:31 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#31 <blockquote><i>I think I'm going to join MADD and see how long until they toss me out</i></blockquote>I bet it would be before you finish your third drink. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:47:47 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#30 The Libertarians or MADD? Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:40:48 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#29 <i>police practices to stop mass transit vehicles and search passengers without probable cause. </i><p> <i> Does that really happen in America?  </i><p> Sadly, yeah it does. Read up on the Border Patrol's 100 mile zone. They stop Amtrack trains and bu Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:40:03 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#28 If you go to their Los Angeles chapter website there's a little gem of a link called "MultiCultural." This is the link to the portion of their website that is in Spanish. I can't think of a more out of touch organization... Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:37:28 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#27 I think I'm going to join MADD and see how long until they toss me out. <p> <i>police practices to stop mass transit vehicles and search passengers without probable cause.</i> <p> Does that really happen in America? It just goes that much further to de Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:33:36 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#26 I spent some time googling after I read your post. I can't really find any organized group against MADD, just various localized opponents popping up every time they try some of their shenanigans. It is sad. I think MADD can get no more scary, and then I fo Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:29:35 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#25 I don't think you can make police officers automatons who all behave the same way. Individuals doing their job, whatever that job is, have to be given both autonomy and accountability. I think you'd be right to hold individual officers accountable for "tim Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:25:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#24 I'd donate lots of money to anyone prepared to go to the mat with those deranged fuckers at MADD. They've pissed on our society enough and I think a good number of people would come out feeling the same way if there was an upswell against that specific bra Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:18:53 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#23 There is also (at least when I was there) no vehicle inspection in Idaho. This gets you a "I don't know how they do things wherever YOU'RE FROM, but here we do things a little bit differently..." from the mechanic/vehicle inspection guy after you move back Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:10:13 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#22 <i>Fuck that: I want all the unlicensed and/or uninsured drivers off the road.</i><p> You are not legally bound to insure your car in New Hampshire.  I'm sure there are other states as well. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:03:22 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#21 <i> I agree that removing (or at least reducing) the jobs to be had would be go a lot further in reducing the incentive to cross the border than many in politics would like to admit . . but that said, it's just not that easy. As you know, I'm in Tucson, an Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:00:08 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#20 <i>"No jobs? The illegals stop coming, allowing the Border Patrol to concentrate on preventing terrorist infiltration."</i><p> I was under the (incorrect, obviously) impression that one of the goals of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.epi.org/content.cfm Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:57:28 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#19 <i>There is no requirement for a license to walk down the street - only to drive.</i> <p> But there is a license requirement to carry concealed weapons. I demand to know whether you have a gun hidden on you! Think of the children! Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:32:04 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#18 There is no requirement for a license to walk down the street - only to drive. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:29:52 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#17     I agree that removing (or at least reducing) the jobs to be had would be go a lot further in reducing the incentive to cross the border than many in politics would like to admit . . but that said, it's just not that easy. As you know, I'm in Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:29:47 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#16 <i>Just so you understand, I don't want the police to check your license and insurance while you're driving around on your own property - only when you're out driving on the same roads that I use.</i> <p> Then you shouldn't have any problem with police s Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:26:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#15 <blockquote><i>The chances of making a bigger dent on drugs in my neighborhood also goes up with starting house-to-house searches...Why do we allow the police more latitude with motor vehicle searches?</i></blockquote>Just so you understand, I don't want t Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:17:13 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#14 Sure, the chances for catching more go up with more checks. The chances of making a bigger dent on drugs in my neighborhood also goes up with starting house-to-house searches. But I don't think anybody is considering allowing that to happen.<p> Why do we a Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:59:22 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#13 <blockquote><i>Legislators can move driving without a license or insurance from a simple violation to a misdemeanor with six months of jail time</i></blockquote>That won't have any effect at all unless the chances of being arrested are greater than today. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:52:57 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#12 Then the cops can check license, registration and insurance when they pull people over for reckless driving, excessive speed, or whatever actually creates a danger. Legislators can move driving without a license or insurance from a simple violation to a mi Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:29:30 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#11 <blockquote><i>Third, NO MORE CHECKPOINTS, DUI, seatbelt, or otherwise. Those just smack of police state tactics</i></blockquote>Fuck that: I want all the unlicensed and/or uninsured drivers off the road. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:17:18 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#10 <i> I have no idea what can be done about it, but I sure wish I did. </i><p> See my post #9. Start locking up idiots who hire these obvious illegals. The jobs will dry up and our immigration problem will be massively attenuated. As a bonus wages will incre Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:43:29 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#9 As you may or may not be aware the US Border Patrol has jurisdiction anywhere within <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.realneo.us/blog/jeff-buster/faceless-travelers-and-the-us-border-patrol">100 miles of a US border (link more than a bit biased, but link Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:41:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#8 I live near the ironically-named city of Independence, Ohio.  A lily-white suburb if ever there was.  At one time (~30 years ago) I was passing a black man who was driving a Mercedes on the freeway through town, and the cops were out with a speed Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:19:56 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#7 I'm not bald (yet, anyway), just not magic. If I was willing to spend $400 for a haircut, maybe I could get there. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:06:17 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#6 <i>I don't have the magic hair</i><p> It's a magical year: first black man, first woman, first baldy. Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:57:01 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#5 <i> I think you'll find you're up against one mean hell of a lobby when you're willing to go to the mats over checkpoints. I'm talking MADD here and no self respecting politician wants to take on the bereaved mothers of victims of drunk driving. Not to m Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:09:22 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#4 Yowsa to all the above.  I think you'll find you're up against one mean hell of a lobby when you're willing to go to the mats over checkpoints.  I'm talking MADD here and no self respecting politician wants to take on the bereaved mothers of vict Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:48:44 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#3 <i>In all seriousness, you should run for Congress.</i><p> I don't have a chance - I don't have the magic hair :-( Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:34:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#2 Think of the children! It's for your own safety! If you have nothing to hide, what do you have to fear? I don't mind if the police search me if it makes me feel safer. Nobody innocent ever goes to prison, even if somebody is wrongly convicted of a crime th Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:28:15 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/4/22/124323/959#1 We need a common sense bill of rights for drivers. It's getting to the point that the police can and will pull you over for pretty much anything, and then dick you around until they find something real to charge you with (or if you're squeaky clean, until Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:04:45 EST string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/