[Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in Shooting (Trees And Things)

pO157: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Tue, 13 May 2008 12:48:37 EST

What I don't get is why people can't move to a color blind society. If somebody is acting like a thug, then they are a thug, despite what color they are. If the cops brutalized some innocent person, why does it matter what color they are? Each case should

thefadd: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Tue, 13 May 2008 12:25:31 EST

That's still racism. Do you think white people can't be racist against white people? It's fine to hold that "sick and tired of the shenanigans" concept in the abstract--I'm sure that's why plenty of black cops join up to some degree--but it's discriminator

pO157: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Tue, 13 May 2008 06:19:15 EST

Blue bond, eh? What color was the first cop to open fire? If he was white I guess the author's claim could hold water. But if he was black, no dice. I'm too lazy to look it up.

Also, if we're willing to suppose a reason for hypothetical excessive black

thefadd: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Mon, 12 May 2008 20:51:23 EST

Here's one black man's rather interesting take on how race does influence black-cop on black-suspect violence and

Mary Jo Kopechne: Re: smart lawyers

Sun, 4 May 2008 00:30:45 EST

You disregard the amount of shots because you say crossfire gives the illusion of people shooting at the cops; but if you were to get a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night (i.e., the illusion of someone breaking into your house) and shot at the cop

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:54:15 EST

Um, if you read po157's write up one of the links mentions that the cop jumped in front of the car. ;) So, the obvious answer is, a dumb one.

PenitenziAgite: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:21:41 EST

Indeed, what cop would do that?

JimmyHavok: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:36:03 EST

Since the specific call we're discussing is "try to stop a potential drive-by shooting,"

And if a few brown people get shot in the process, who cares? After all, they're brown. If our cop's can't shoot brown people at will, then civi

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:15:59 EST

No, I figure they would be out hassling random citizens, looking to instigate another one of those incidents I was talking about where the suspect became belligerent and resisted arrest. That's why people are wondering where the cops are when

gerrymander: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:52:58 EST

then you're basically saying that cops should receive special treatment, because if they don't they might not protect us.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Guys with legal "carry concealed" permits are responsible only for their own defense, same a

Lou: NYC Police

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:20:49 EST

We kinda figured as much.

port1080: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:25:09 EST

By all indications, the cops did make errors of judgment and overreacted. But innocence isn't the standard the court needs to judge; guilt is. The extent of the overreaction was understandable for cops assessing a potential risk of violence, and acting

ivyafire: Re: re: reason

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:18:24 EST
So might makes right?

gerrymander: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:17:40 EST
It's still a situation where the cops who I am still not convinced were readily identifiable as cops escalated a situation unnecessarily.
I agree with you, to some extent -- as do reports of the altercation. At the time when one of Bell's group f

gerrymander: Re: re: reason

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:42:19 EST
Vulnerable or invulnerable, cop or not cop, he's the guy with the gun.

thefadd: re: reason

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:17:38 EST
because emotional vulnerability is always what I look for in a law enforcement officer

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:15:42 EST
It's still a situation where the cops who I am still not convinced were readily identifiable as cops escalated a situation unnecessarily. That guy didn't have to die, and had the shooter been a civilian it would not have been considered justi

gerrymander: "Darwin awards" are named for a reason

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:12:37 EST
Some random idiot makes an off the cuff remark that he might harm a plainclothes policeman's family (and it's debatable whether or not he knew he was a cop) and deadly force is justified?
Legally? Maybe. Evolutionally? Absolutely. The thing

ivyafire: Re: smart lawyers

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:33:36 EST
Well...did he know the guy?
What are the odds some random guy in a bar knows your address?
That guy was stupid, but cops are supposed to have some judgment. If a citizen says someone threatened to come to their house and har

gerrymander: Re: smart lawyers

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:54:18 EST
seeing as the guy has no clue where his family is
And the cop is supposed to know that... how?
sounds like typical bar-room shit talking to me.
Quite likely, which should only serve to impress the importance of good manners. Also, to

ivyafire: Re: smart lawyers

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:39:40 EST
seeing as the guy has no clue where his family is, that sounds like typical bar-room shit talking to me.
This was some cops abusing their authority, imo. Come on, how many of us have witnessed guys in an altercation making idle

Lou: Meanwhile in another dimension...

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:39:58 EST
This is how it should have gone down.

zyxwvutsr: Re: marksmen

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:18:32 EST
Man, that'd be funny!

thefadd: Re: marksmen

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:11:14 EST
And I suppose if the cop had nailed a kid two blocks away instead of the driver, they'd have nailed the driver with felony murder.

wetkarma: Re: smart lawyers

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:24:44 EST
You raise some good points regarding the multiple shots, and I'd like to focus my comment on that. First however lets get out of the way your hypothetical scenario which I believe is inaccurate.
The reality is that the cop who initially fired was serio

postillion: Re: Stop... Threadjack time.

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:49:14 EST
Exactly. Although I am also inclined to think that the government, on both local and federal level should consider stepping in on a tax level as well.
Since companies are given tax exemptions locally as well as different tax breaks on a federal le

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking Shoes] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:22:44 EST
I get what you're saying. But in an instance where they were in plainclothes, and it's in dispute whether or not the guys knew they were actually officers, being in front of the vehicle was stupid.
Having witnessed uniformed officers step in front

pO157: Stop... Threadjack time.

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:08:41 EST
(instead of: hey, those corporations are being cheap asses and refusing to pay a living standard)
Or, consumers are too cheap ass to enforce the standards they espouse. Instead of researching companies and purchasing goods/services from those w

zyxwvutsr: Re: [Breaking Shoes] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:48:03 EST
That story says the car was not moving when the police officer positioned himself in front of it. No one was, "jumping in front of a moving vehicle."

zyxwvutsr: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:45:51 EST

If the 60% is from reported crimes, then it has no baring on the shootings of black men in New York as the recent shootings of black men were not related to reported crimes
If you say so. In any case I was addressing your cla

postillion: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:37:55 EST
The 60% figure is from reported crimes, not arrests. (55% of those arrested in NYC are black, so if anything the police aren't paying enough attention to black criminals.)
Then you are arguing against your own logic from further up. If the

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:36:21 EST
witness account of the officer moving to the front of the vehicle
I've seen many an officer step in front of a vehicle and order someone to stop, especiall

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:21:54 EST
another write up I read elsewhere, let me go see if I can find it.

zyxwvutsr: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:04:45 EST

Sure, you could say those 60% were committing crimes, but what of the non-black people out there committing crimes who aren't checked because of their race
The 60% figure is from reported crimes, not arrests. (55% of those ar

postillion: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:03:03 EST
Blacks account for 60% of the criminals in NYC.
Now, I would think that race percentage in terms of crimes is a little hard to know in a city with r

zyxwvutsr: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:21:41 EST

There are plenty of criminals of all races and both genders in NY...
Blacks account for 60% of the criminals in NYC. Would it make you happier if a few Hispanics got gunned down by the cops to balance things out?

port1080: Re: smart lawyers

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:16:13 EST
Disregard for the moment how many shots were fired...Now whether or not he should have gotten in the way of the vehicle, whether or not he should be firing at a vehicle with multiple people in it...he gets a pass for self-defense.
What the hel

zyxwvutsr: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:14:45 EST

Nobody should be jumping in front of a moving vehicle
What gave you the idea that any of the cops jumped in front of a moving vehicle?

zyxwvutsr: Re: marksmen

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:10:02 EST

Personally the only thing I'm shocked by is that you can fire 50 bullets into a vehicle and not kill everyone in it
Never underestimate the incompetence of NYPD officers. The majority of the bullets missed the car (a Nissan

wetkarma: smart lawyers

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:55:53 EST
Props to the Policemen's lawyer(s) for going with a bench trial vs. jury trial. I suspect your average citizen might have had a harder time voting to acquit police officers.
from the TnT writeup, I find myself willing to agree. Disregard for the moment

JimmyHavok: Re: not just comedy gold

Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:16:46 EST
When a bunch of guys in civvies wave guns at you in a sketchy neighborhood, you are probably justified in trying to GTFO.

ivyafire: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:26:01 EST
This is what burns me. Cops escalate the situation and someone else pays the price.
Nobody should be jumping in front of a moving vehicle. If someone is leaving a drinking establishment and they may have slowed reactions, you're a moron if

postillion: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:58:57 EST
Koreans don't like black folks. It's not the "media representation of black dominated neighborhoods," it's 'cause you're Korean.
It's an interesting question, and something I had to think across 3 levels: (1) on the Korean level (2) on the Korean

thefadd: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:07:33 EST
I have to agree with you on this one. Cops, as a practice ought to avoid standing in front of cars. If they put themselves in danger, they shouldn't be allowed as policy to use their guns to extract themselves from that danger. The chances of the car escap

port1080: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:51:19 EST
Awww, the officer is in danger? So what. That's part of the job. That's what you signed up for. If you're a cop and haven't made peace with the idea that it's a dangerous career, you need to get another job. Is it safer for the cop to shoot? Sure it

zyxwvutsr: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:22:51 EST

As someone who is not white, I hesitate to move into neighborhoods that is predominantly black. And I think this is because of the media representation of black dominated neighborhoods as always being criminal and dangerous...(I am Kor

joshv: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:49:01 EST
If "evading" endangers the lives of officers on the scene then they are justified in shooting into the car. I don't care if the officer jumped in front of the car in the first place, the idiot in the car has a choice - they can stop, or get shot. &nb

gerrymander: not just comedy gold

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:40:29 EST
Let's review Chris Rock's words of advice on matters like this:
Obey the law.
Use common sense.
Stop immediately.
Be polite.
Turn that shit off.
Shut the fuck up

postillion: Re: Do you really want to play the race card?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:32:44 EST
I do actually. I knew the race of the cops involved as I read about the decisions this morning. However, I would still argue the race card as someone who is not white.
As someone who is not white, I hesitate to move into neighborhoods

pO157: Do you really want to play the race card?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:28:05 EST
Here's the cops involved in the Bell situation.

postillion: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:16:49 EST
Originally, I used to think that about Al Sharpton as well, but over the years, as the number of truly horrific incidents of NYPD shooting down innocent black men have continued, I've changed my mind.
Really, it seems that every 4 years or so, the NYPD

MayorBob: You know the truly shocking thing about Sharpton?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:32:08 EST
It really isn't that he would turn into a "hyberbolic attention ho" by trading on somebody else's grief and misery to score some cheap points and get himself on the News At Six? It's really that there are still any people left in America who are surp

pO157: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:24:19 EST
OK, but you don't get on the radio and start using highly emotional and loaded phrases like "abortion of justice" minutes after an event like this. You calmly suggest alternative ways to make the point of the aggrieved parties without sounding like a hyper

thefadd: Re: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:20:58 EST
Well, he's not wrong in this case and he did call for calm. The reaction outside the courthouse was extremely emotional.

pO157: What's up with "Rev" Al?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:18:22 EST
How can Al Sharpton call for calm with a straight face after these types of events when he is usually fanning the flames before and after events like these happen? To wit:
"This

MayorBob: Does Anyone Think This Is Going To Turn Out Well?

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:15:15 EST
The feds say they're going to launch a probe of the shooting giving all who remember how the Rodney King trial in LA a feeling of deja vu. Ma

port1080: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:51:35 EST
I guess I can see where the cop that got hit by the car has a reason to open fire.
Even here, I think the police need far stricter and more uniform rules. I watch far too many "World's Wildest Police Videos" type TV shows (everyone needs a b

pO157: Re: [Breaking News] NYPD Detectives Acquitted in S

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:19:23 EST
I guess I can see where the cop that got hit by the car has a reason to open fire. I can kind of get behind that, although the wisdom of shooting into a vehicle with more than one person in it is kind of flawed.
As for the others who showed up at the sc