Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence By Raping Constitution (Trees And Things)

thefadd: Re: Herding Cats

Thu, 29 May 2008 20:54:44 EST

Lemmings don't actually jump off clips in herds.

pO157: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Mon, 19 May 2008 08:52:10 EST

I'm sure there is a way to make it work...unfortunately it more than likely involves another layer of government bureaucracy. And unless that agency had some real teeth, it's not likely to work anyway.

If this idea worked it would likely remove

Lou: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Mon, 19 May 2008 08:16:01 EST

Relocation Agent: Ok, Mr. Jones...we have a l

pO157: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Mon, 19 May 2008 07:36:43 EST

There has to be a way of making it work. I assume tickets would only be given to those who had job guarantees in another state. Some areas seem to be hurting for agricultural and service job labor, so if somebody wants to fill an otherwise empty slot, why

Lou: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sun, 18 May 2008 22:01:20 EST

e finding it tough to get by with providing them cash to move to a boom state like Arizona, Nevada, Florida

During the Murial Boatlift, the governor of Florida (or someone on his staff) floated the idea of giving bus tickets and cash to folks who

pO157: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sun, 18 May 2008 19:15:30 EST

Let me expand on that a little bit. The system was set up with more concern about chiselers taking advantage of it than for people who needed help getting iced out. That's why p057's friends had such little luck getting help.

I disa

Lou: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sun, 18 May 2008 10:16:38 EST

All good points. Years ago, I worked with many AFDC families to help them find work and you description matches my experience. Also, here in Maine, in order to root out "chiselers" a total assessment was done by the welfare department. If

JimmyHavok: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sun, 18 May 2008 04:09:33 EST

Chiselers are i

JimmyHavok: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sun, 18 May 2008 02:29:42 EST

He's saying "People I know need help, people I don't know are a bunch of chiselers."

port1080: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sat, 17 May 2008 23:03:19 EST

Jimmy, I generally agree with your take on this, but your criticism in this comment is somewhat disingenuous. You say "So...is the welfare system generous, or is it punitive? You don't seem to be able to work out which one it is" - it's r

JimmyHavok: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sat, 17 May 2008 21:44:36 EST

I have close friends who have gotten permanently fucked (no lube) by the welfare system in their hour of need. Yet, every time I go to the store I see people buying junk food with benefits cards.

So...is the welfare system generous, or is it puni

ms sue: I couldn't resist

Sat, 17 May 2008 10:52:27 EST

:-)

MayorBob: Herding Cats

Sat, 17 May 2008 10:03:04 EST

Keeping discussions on topic and to the point is a bit like herding cats or stopping lemmings from their advance on the cliffs, isn't it?

pO157: Off-Topic Meta

Sat, 17 May 2008 08:52:57 EST

In other news, I think this is the first 75+ comment thread we have had at TnT where at least 2/3rds of the posts were blatantly off topic.

Go us! :-)

pO157: Re: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sat, 17 May 2008 08:00:24 EST

And yet, you seem to have no problem with it happening.

I hope you don't approach your own life with that sort of perfectionism, because you'd never get anything done. No project is ever going to be accomplished at anything more than

JimmyHavok: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Sat, 17 May 2008 04:16:09 EST
Dental coverage was excluded for health coverage because back when our insurance system was established, there wasn't the awareness of the impact dental health had on overall health.
And it wasn't included in Medicare because most folks old enough to qu

JimmyHavok: are there no poorhouses? no prisons?

Sat, 17 May 2008 04:12:58 EST
I hope you don't approach your own life with that sort of perfectionism, because you'd never get anything done. No project is ever going to be accomplished at anything more than an adequate level. If you want perfection, you will never be satis

Lou: Not comfortable, either

Fri, 16 May 2008 23:52:37 EST
While I understand the idea behind "raping the constitution", I wish we had found a better hed. The way I see it, if political hawks such as ourselves see the constitution in the process of being "raped", we can call upon our senators....or elect new

postillion: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 21:53:56 EST
It would have been thousands (tens of thousands?) of dollars, but he didn't even bother to quote me on the price.
That's what really annoyed me. My dentist did the same thing.
And I want to trust a dentist given that teeth are pre

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 21:42:50 EST
I'm not a clinician, but couldn't it be that dentistry and optometry generally require non-MD specialists? I know my health plan excludes services provided by DPMs, dieticians, and a whole host of allied health people. Although they recently added in chiro

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 21:37:18 EST
Between the dentists I can't stand because it always feels like they are trying to push extra procedures for the money from the insurance company,
This pisses me off. A few years ago I had the dental insurance of an Omani Prince. I had the civi

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 21:29:31 EST
Tons of places. I'm living in one right now.

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 21:27:52 EST
If charities could do the job, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because we wouldn't have a poverty or a health care distribution problem.
If the government could do the job without fraud and waste we wouldn't be having this conversation

postillion: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 18:36:14 EST
People won't look at this as a reason to find another job - they'll just go without health insurance.
My experience with doctors in San Francisco have been dismal. The first thing they ask is whether you have an health insurance plan, on a

postillion: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 18:29:18 EST
So where does that leave us? We will probably never have a situation where the overwhelming majority of society gets dental coverage. What do we do about it?
First off, I think we do a class action suite against the insurance executives who someh

postillion: Re: No easy way out

Fri, 16 May 2008 18:19:25 EST
Actually, the amount of real dollars spent on welfare has shrunk considerably since the Clinton reform.

ms sue: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Fri, 16 May 2008 18:19:04 EST
I, too, support the "creative freedoms of our editors." I hope that they support my right to criticize a choice that I find objectionable.
I didn't like your suggestion for the hed. I found it to be in extremely poor taste regardless of your POV on thi

postillion: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Fri, 16 May 2008 18:07:45 EST
My primary concern is protection of privacy and civil liberties against an ever-growing corporate government data-collecting machine and to that end keeping control out of the hands of insurance companies
Actually, a lot of data collecting is alr

thefadd: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Fri, 16 May 2008 17:11:43 EST
And I firmly believe that she could advocate for victims of rape without attacking my civil liberties. If she's going to use her rape for political ends--because that's what "I was raped, you people should lose some freedoms" consists of--she opens herself

ms sue: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Fri, 16 May 2008 16:06:58 EST
I thought I had made myself clear a couple posts ago that my objection was to the wording of the headline.
I firmly believe that the point you and several others are so eager to make could have been done without the insensitive wording that equat

JimmyHavok: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 15:27:04 EST
What do we do when taxes become so high that affected areas suffer from "brain drain" and the loss of the wealthier people?
Where has that happened?

JimmyHavok: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 15:24:51 EST
Finally, success in life is not conditional upon other people being fucked by the system.
And yet, you seem to have no problem with it happening.
There are secular charities as well.
If charities could do the job, we wouldn't be hav

thefadd: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Fri, 16 May 2008 13:13:12 EST
I've never been arrested and I've no expectation of ever doing anything to get arrested but between this and HillaryCare, you can see the slippery slope of private data collection. I have every bit of sympathy for a rape victim--they don't get the support

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 12:46:39 EST
Ehh, that sounds all well and good, but in reality I'm not sure it works that well. The United Way is a great example of this, in fact - they've become so big and so entrenched that it's been very hard to force them to reform. I remember co

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 11:11:43 EST
Except for as pointed out above, cut off donations. Without the money the agency dies and a competitor can come in. You can't refuse to pay taxes, and you have to wait until the next election cycle to vote out a bad government. Private charities are acc

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 10:54:22 EST
But for every bad example, there are good ones. CC, as pointed out above, has been running for 280 years but still keeps its management and fund raising expenses at just below 10%. Like charities there are good governments and bad governments. And what do

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 10:46:44 EST
Private charities have a long history of abuse. The United Way, which was supposed to be "the answer" in terms of setting up a large, multi-purpose, accountable private charity, has offers dental for a service industry job. If I felt dental insurance was that important I could stop working here and go serve lunch

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 08:31:35 EST
If dental was a higher priority for me I could probably look and find another job. ...and what if you can't find a job that provides dental coverage? You probably could, considering your educational performance, but there are a whole lot of peop

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Fri, 16 May 2008 08:07:06 EST
Why do people do it? I am not sure. But even on most jobs I've had with publishing houses, coverage often doesn't cover dental nor optometry. Nothing is crappier financially than having to spend $4,000 on dental surgery. So why do it?

ms sue: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Thu, 15 May 2008 22:45:54 EST
Interesting.
Thanks for the whiplash.

Lou: Slow or Stop

Thu, 15 May 2008 21:40:48 EST
Which will it be? The lure of having DNA information will simply be too great for the insurance companies to ignore...likewise law enforcement. I don't see this march to DNA databases ever stopping. Sometimes I think we can't even slow it

thefadd: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Thu, 15 May 2008 21:11:31 EST
My primary concern is protection of privacy and civil liberties against an ever-growing corporate government data-collecting machine and to that end keeping control out of the hands of insurance companies. I'm not willing to insure one more person in excha

JimmyHavok: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:57:43 EST
The vast majority of large employers will dump the healthcare costs and increase salaries slightly.
Except for the "increase salaries slightly" part.

pO157: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:25:05 EST
or simply taken in under a false identification and then completely exonerated.
I was thinking about this the other day. If the people pushing these sorts of laws truly were concerned about false arrests to justify getting DNA without a

pO157: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Thu, 15 May 2008 20:22:10 EST
But... but... but... It's for our own safety! Honestly, what do you have to hide? If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.

postillion: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:52:20 EST
I suppose we are coming at it very differently. If anything, I read it completely different where I think it's much more important to get everyone covered under a plan. And I suppose perhaps I have less to lose since my health coverage isn't gr

thefadd: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:20:41 EST
It is offensive--equally offensive I hope as forcibly taking the DNA of people who are simply arrested for say...peacefully protesting against an unpopular war, caught in a quasi-constitutional traffic checkpoint for simply not carrying proof of insurance,

thefadd: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:13:38 EST
...incentivizes...

thefadd: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Thu, 15 May 2008 19:09:43 EST
The cost between the two plans is slight but the difference in coverage is vast.
And...?
You (correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming you think that's a good thing for society)--and Krugman--paint with a broad brush that pretends as if

postillion: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:27:59 EST
The cost between the two plans is slight but the difference in coverage is vast.

postillion: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:17:15 EST
So health insurance is so important that people want it to be one of the top planks in a campaign platform but not important enough that they will research potential employment opportunities or switch jobs in order to get it?
In my industry, most

thefadd: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 14:16:53 EST
The relationship between people and their government and people and their employers is vastly different...people think they can just demand whatever from the government and it should magically appear for no cost while people end up taking whatever dead end

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 07:59:24 EST
not important enough that they will research potential employment opportunities or switch jobs in order to get it?

You make it sound like it's so easy to just change career paths...if only it were so.

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 07:37:45 EST
You assume way too much of people. People won't look at this as a reason to find another job - they'll just go without health insurance.
So health insurance is so important that people want it to be one of the top planks in a campaign pla

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 07:26:56 EST
And if a company really wants to retain its workers and they have trouble finding reliable people without a non-intrusive insurance plan that will change. If people are willing to pay a premium for privacy somebody will fill that market

pO157: Re: No easy way out

Thu, 15 May 2008 06:49:17 EST
If we really wanted to "end welfare as we know it", we would have to go with my draconian cold turkey plan. And with that, we'd have to really increase spending for police and perhaps suspend some civil liberties because it's for certain that the

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 06:38:43 EST
In the absence of government regulations preventing insurance companies from demanding DNA samples before granting insurance policies (and I assume that absence would be the case in your libertarian fantasy world), there will probably be a time when te

JimmyHavok: Re: No plan is perfect.

Thu, 15 May 2008 04:05:52 EST
Is it possible that the reason so many people are in dire straits is because they have learned dependence?
So that's why Europeans are so fat and lazy!

dzetetes: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 03:16:54 EST
Damn, I forgot to follow up on my asterisk. That was:
*The process for applying for federal jobs online is becoming more streamlined and uniform as time goes on, so applying to a couple hundred, while still a lot of work, isn't as bad as it might sound.

dzetetes: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Thu, 15 May 2008 03:14:25 EST
In my libertarian fantasy world, the sanctity of each person's genome would be protected by privacy laws denying governments the right to mine them for information on disease. If a person wishes to submit to DNA testing in a private agreement with some

postillion: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 15:45:49 EST
Ever notice how most MDs now go and take residencies and sometimes fellowships to specialize and sub specialize in certain fields? Do we really need a guy with allergies or a cold going to a physician with 3 board certifications charging $400 a visit? W

Lou: No easy way out

Wed, 14 May 2008 13:34:09 EST
+5, brilliant. I would still keep employer plans because that is a salary benefit from a company to a worker, a private affair. But such a plan would force responsible people to save and be accountable, which is a good thing.
Employers also have

thefadd: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Wed, 14 May 2008 13:01:50 EST
Obama's plan is very similar to Hillary's on its face but how they go about accomplishing their coverage goals is actually vastly different. Obama's plan is an extension and hold on the current system. It is more aggressively liberal and honestly not entir

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 12:57:54 EST
The free market will work to lower the cost of medical care, and as mentioned before, charities and other agencies can take care of the truly needy and disadvantaged, especially if taxes are reduced so donors have more money to give. There is no perfect

pO157: Re: No plan is perfect.

Wed, 14 May 2008 11:27:39 EST
I was typing my reply to port while you made your post. I think a few issues overlap, so I will be brief here.
The same folks you describe as being in dire straights could also be in dire straights while being on an employer sponsored health plan a

pO157: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 11:20:12 EST

Which is all well and good, except for that portion of disease caused by environmental factors and genetic heritage which are largely beyond our control. This is especially true now that genetic pre-screening is becoming increasingly possibl

Lou: Re: No plan is perfect.

Wed, 14 May 2008 11:15:16 EST
The same folks you describe as being in dire straights could also be in dire straights while being on an employer sponsored health plan as well. Are they more entitled to being entitled because they and their employer are paying for it?
Also, like

pO157: No plan is perfect.

Wed, 14 May 2008 10:39:05 EST
But as it stands, why should society be forced to subsidize the health care cost of people who do not care about themselves or respect other people? People who call 911 to get an ambulance to take them to the ER for allergies or minor conditions. People wh

port1080: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 10:34:40 EST
People invest in themselves and their futures by keeping themselves healthy, working out, eating right, etc.

Which is all well and good, except for that portion of disease caused by environmental factors and genetic heritage which are l

ms sue: Re: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 10:04:01 EST
No government mandated health insurance, no unnecessary government interference in private health matters. People invest in themselves and their futures by keeping themselves healthy, working out, eating right, etc. The free market and competition allow

pO157: I got yer competing plan right here.

Wed, 14 May 2008 09:44:54 EST
Given that there were three strong competitors in the beginning, each candidate's strength pushed the others to come up with strong competing or similar plans.
No government mandated health insurance, no unnecessary government interferenc

postillion: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Tue, 13 May 2008 22:55:43 EST
Actually, for those voting Democrat, the health care plan is a moot issue as Obama's health care plan is basically a rip-off of Hillary's plan. Health care advocacy has always been Hillary's strength and her lead in the way that Iraq was for Obama an

pO157: Re: No Forced DNA Registration Yet.

Tue, 13 May 2008 22:06:46 EST
I often imagine this is how a central database will come about. Much like how there is a photo of almost every American in the DMV database after 20-30 years there could be DNA samples of every American in "child safety" databases that conveniently link in

thefadd: Re: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Tue, 13 May 2008 18:49:00 EST
The health care proposal of Hillary Clinton is "nationalized" care in only the loosest sense. It would require individuals making under $75k to buy into the current syst

JimmyHavok: American exceptionalism raises its head again

Tue, 13 May 2008 17:57:34 EST
America is special! We're too evil to risk universal health care.

MayorBob: No Forced DNA Registration Yet.

Tue, 13 May 2008 17:36:45 EST
However, they're marketing these DNA kits to parents. Most of the ads inform parents that 800,000 kids "go missing" each year and that surely having your kid's DNA tucked away somewhere will work wonders if he or she is one of the unlucky 800,000. Most o

thefadd: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Tue, 13 May 2008 17:03:03 EST
Even though it elucidates my feelings on the subject, I have to admit I was a little surprised it actually got picked:)

pO157: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Tue, 13 May 2008 15:51:57 EST
This is a good idea. Allowing victims who may not want to file the police report the option of having rape kits taken for free and sealed anonymously until they decide they want to talk to

thefadd: Re: I disagree with Ms. Neuman.

Tue, 13 May 2008 13:09:47 EST
Reasons 1, 2, and 3 why I will never vote for Hillary Clinton. Nationalized health care may "work" in other countries but under the American system it is an absolute trojan horse to increased government control and interference.

gerrymander: Re: I disagree with Ms. Neuman.

Tue, 13 May 2008 12:34:51 EST
As silly as socialized medicine is, I do not believe anybody is proposing requiring all Americans to give DNA samples for their insurance records.
Yet.

pO157: Re: I disagree with Ms. Neuman.

Tue, 13 May 2008 12:23:47 EST
As silly as socialized medicine is, I do not believe anybody is proposing requiring all Americans to give DNA samples for their insurance records.
Am I wrong?

gerrymander: Re: I disagree with Ms. Neuman.

Tue, 13 May 2008 12:19:38 EST
Do we really want them to be in charge of these databases potentially giving intricate personal information on innocent citizens and their relatives?
Good thing that the Democrats, those traditional defenders of racial and class disparity, are op

ms sue: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Tue, 13 May 2008 10:14:42 EST
That point could have been made with phrasing that doesn't imply equivalence.

pO157: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Tue, 13 May 2008 08:53:20 EST
I will stand up for the alternate headline. I believe the sampling of accused criminals who have not been convicted is unconstitutional. Ms. Neuman's case is horrible, but using an appeal to emotion to remove due process rights from arrestees is A Bad Thin

pO157: I disagree with Ms. Neuman.

Tue, 13 May 2008 08:46:50 EST
Her case is tragic, however the reason police caught up with the perpetrator is because they finally ran his prints through the system. Twenty years later. Had they done their job right the first time maybe the other victims would not have happened.
The

ms sue: Re: Rape Victim Looks To Repeat Cycle Of Violence

Tue, 13 May 2008 08:20:17 EST
My fault for being lax about checking out submissions. I would have protested using this hed. IMO, it is distasteful and borderline offensive.