Impeachment in Play! (Trees And Things)

thefadd: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:28:12 EST

The US is signatory to the UN Convention on Torture which requires signatory countries to investigate and prosecute or extradite to a place that will prosecute.

PenitenziAgite: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:37:30 EST

So, it's not just 'technically correct', but rather just simply 'correct'. There is no legislation that supports it, and even the Justice Department refused to sanction it.

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:53:39 EST

I'm expecting a very large number of pardons for companies illegally following the orders of the President sometime in January.

Interesting point. However, what does that do in the long run? If a company is charged criminally for a crime what h

Shy Elf: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:50:31 EST

Well, technically that's correct since the ATT internet sniffers and warrantless wiretaps weren't "legislated", but were simply implemented by the Administration in violation of the law without changing the law. I'm expecting a very large number of p

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:00:24 EST

The use of torture on POW is directly related to the Geneva Convention.

Well, speaking of the Constitution....there is the Patriot Act.

But I would prefer to impeach Cheney and Bush on our international acts rather than domestic acts, although

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:56:54 EST

Once again you are enumerating political disagreements and claiming that those are sufficient for impeachment. (You've discontinued mentioning the Geneva Conventions, I see. Is that because you've realized that invoking those was completely irreleva

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:43:31 EST

As has been well covered by the media, both Bush and Cheney's involvement in torture legislation is beyond mere advocacy.

They include:

Legislation to exempt CIA from a bill that specifically bars torture. This was a plan

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:19:57 EST

The guy promoted torture

I asked you what Cheney could be charged with, you reply with a political disagreement. Same as before.

His own chief of staff...

Are you suggesting that Cheney shoul

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:35:06 EST

The guy promoted torture. His own chief of staff was called for questioning on White House and their workings on how torture happened. As the link I put above already said, Americans who were part of the military have been court martialed for u

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:46:07 EST

So. I'll try again: What, specifically, do you think Cheney could be charged with? What portion(s) of the Geneva Conventions did he violate?

If you haven't got an answer for either of those questions, then at least have the intellectual honesty to admit

zyxwvutsr: Re: Sick cents

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:40:10 EST

That's awesome.

Mercurial Helmsman: Sick cents

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:13:48 EST

I was doing fundraising in 2007 for various democratic party organizations and uber-organizations. The sub set of lapsed donors who were really mad that Pelosi took impeachment "off the table". At first, as a kid trying to get my bonus, I

PenitenziAgite: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:59:58 EST

I can tell you that the warrantless wiretapping is most definitely not one the items that has been legislated. They recently passed some modifications to the FISA court laws, but they have never OK'd the warrantless stuff. Man

postillion: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:24:14 EST

Compared to his predecessors, the number of party-line 5-4 rulings is vanishingly small,

One can only say that because of the short term of Roberts so far. Last year, 5-4 rulings were almost every single ruling.

Unanimous opinion

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:09:20 EST

Also, the article didn't mention Dick Cheney.

You are right. Here you go.

thefadd: Re: Dennis the Menace

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:43:23 EST

The city was forced into bankruptcy by the banks who held the municipal bonds and were mad that he wouldn't sell out to their buddies. Independent research since that has demonstrate Kucinich saved Clevelanders millions over the long and was right not to s

skeeter1: Dennis the Menace

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:26:54 EST

Being a life-long Clevelander (and no spring chicken), I well remember when Dennis was mayor and ran the city into bankruptcy, but you know what? Looking back on it, he was right not to cave-in the power companies and sell off Cleveland Public Power.

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:07:45 EST

By old laws, are you talking about the Geneva Conventions?

Sure, why not? Did Dick Cheney violate any of the Geneva Conventions that apply to the US? I mean, if he did it hasn't been widely reported.

gerrymander: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:28:30 EST

Roberts has been a major disappointment

Why do you think so, postillion? Going by the way opinions have been handed down since he took the bench, his term so far has been a phenomenal success. Compared to his predecessors, the number of party-lin

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:06:40 EST

By old laws, are you talking about the Geneva Conventions?

postillion: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:05:13 EST

To be quite frank, what makes you think they will be any better domestically?

I don't. I think that Obama's domestic policies are very weak and that his inexperience shines through in his inability to come up with almost any domestic policy

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:55:36 EST

Elaine Scarry already did the work for us

That article discussed old law - very old law in some cases - and I don't think it's reasonable to describe it as fantasizing about a hypothetical version of international law. Also,

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:09:13 EST

Yet, even though I agree and would like nothing more than to see Bush and Cheney made to account for what they have done to this nation, I think I would stay in bed for the next four years if the Republicans won the presidency again. For the sake

postillion: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:37:19 EST
I've had this round of arguments with several of my friends. One of the more interesting arguments for impeachment that one of my friends gave was so that we can regain our legitimacy on the international scene where our reputation of "democracy" is

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:21:52 EST
But the job of Congress is not to determine who wins the presidency (except in case of a tie), the job is to preserve, protect & defend the Constitution. Just because it may jeopardize an election does not give them leave to shirk their duties.

postillion: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:17:57 EST
Did you have any real charges in mind or were you just thinking, 'there oughtta be a law,' and fantasizing about your own version of international law?
Elaine Scarry already did t

postillion: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:13:48 EST
Given that the Democrats have a recent history of losing the presidency whenever it looks like the election is in the bag, I can understand why Reid and Pelosi are leery of impeaching Bush & Cheney. I think impeaching so close to the election gua

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:53:29 EST
That is a well thought out, creative and good compromise to a difficult situation. I'd even go as far as to say it would be the best way to solve the problem.
Therefore I am forced to say it is completely unworkable and will never happen in Washington.

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the dumocrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:36:59 EST

Cheney, otoh, should be removed from office, sent to Gitmo and tried in absentia at The Hague
Did you have any real charges in mind or were you just thinking, 'there oughtta be a law,' and fantasizing about your own version o

zyxwvutsr: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:33:49 EST

Pelosi herself has called Bush "Reckless," "incompetent," "shallow," "not a leader,"
Heh, heh. You mean Nancy Pelosi, right?

Shy Elf: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:19:52 EST
If they were going to do it, they'd impeach Cheney, negotiate a Republican VP, confirm him and and then impeach Bush. It would make them look less dangerously power-hungry.

pO157: Re: Two words:

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:31:48 EST
His first acts would be a blanket pardon of Bush
As if Bush will ever see the inside of a criminal courtroom. Sure, I'd like to see it but I think it is beyond unlikely.
and plans for a war with Iran starting January 18, 2008
Wo

thefadd: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:31:04 EST
That's one way to make Obama look less liberal.

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:28:08 EST
Or, they both can removed from office. Of course, that leaves us with President Pelosi for 6 months, which is also undesirable. But I'd wager she is relatively unlikely to start wars with Iran or any other crazy shit.

thefadd: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:24:37 EST
I actually don't think Bush should be impeached. Well, I wouldn't mind the mark of impeachment on him but I'm not in favor of removing him from office. Cheney, otoh, should be removed from office, sent to Gitmo and tried in absentia at The Hague.

pO157: Update!

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:22:15 EST
Or maybe Kucinich and free thinking Dems in Congress end up making a deal with the GOP to discharge the resolution from the committee and have a floor debate? That would be classic theater. Actually if I was a GOP operative that is what I would be urgi

pO157: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:12:16 EST
Pelosi and Reid are first class idiots and beautiful examples of the weasley politicians everyone loves to hate. The things that everyone hated about Hillary on this campaign are those same characteristics. They make me embarrassed to be registered to

thefadd: Re: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:05:02 EST
Pelosi and Reid are first class idiots and beautiful examples of the weasley politicians everyone loves to hate. The things that everyone hated about Hillary on this campaign are those same characteristics. They make me embarrassed to be registered to that

pO157: The duality of the democrats.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:15:26 EST
There appears to be a serious disconnect between the actions and words of the party leadership. I can't be the only person picking up on it.
For example, Pelosi herself has called Bush "Thomas today and assigned the number H. Res 1258.
I agree with your comment about there being a snowball's chance of actually getting a vote, though. M

MayorBob: But he didn't "introduce" anything.

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:30:46 EST
He read his intention to introduce these bills of impeachment into the Congressional Record. These bills stand a snowball's chance of surviving a blast furnace of ever resulting in as much as hearings on the matter, much less the actual conviction of