No, You Will Not Be Scalping My Child. (Trees And Things)

songofthepogo: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:22:30 EST

this is the comment, along with #6 by ivyafire, i wish i'd been able to make, but not eloquent enough to manage.

thefadd: Re: I cum 2 u 4 w!sd0m 0h w!s3 1

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:09:06 EST

By the way, going back to your radically mistaken idea that "[g]ender is determined by individuals based on their beliefs about sex," I'd like to point out that if that were true, we should expect to see many, many genders, yet the classification of gen

zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:06:24 EST

Aren't you presuming that the school admin and the community doesn't get a bit of a thrill by pushing around the young and different?
Actually I'm certain that plays a part - it's human nature. It's also human nature to dress

Lou: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:10:14 EST
Presumably the school administration (and likely the community) would disagree with you
Aren't you presuming that the school admin and the community doesn't get a bit of a thrill by pushing around the young and different?
JJC - I hope there ar

Lou: Re: Jesus Christ

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:26:33 EST
In the principal's office at Bethlehem Comprehensive (Home of the Phighting Pharisees)
Principal- "Now, Mrs. Christ, as you can see on the stone tablets we send home to every family, long hair is simply not allowed. We're only thinking about Jesus

keta: Jesus Christ

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:18:26 EST
I guess this long hair wouldn't be welcome at the school either.

zyxwvutsr: Re: I cum 2 u 4 w!sd0m 0h w!s3 1

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:41:57 EST
Biology determines that there will be sexually-determined differences in behavior. Culture will affect the particular differences in many cases, such as with clothing fashions.
By the way, going back to your radically mistaken idea that "[g]ende

Shy Elf: Re: Playing Along With Ken.

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:57:36 EST
Umm.... Did any of you notice that his hair is normally in two tight braids?
The newspaper took a few beautiful photos in their photo shoot, but that's not how he wears it normally. And his mother's blog points out that he always wears a helmet on

thefadd: Re: I cum 2 u 4 w!sd0m 0h w!s3 1

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:31:10 EST
biology makes you pick pants over skirts every morning?

zyxwvutsr: Re: I cum 2 u 4 w!sd0m 0h w!s3 1

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:19:47 EST
Beliefs are innate when they are caused by biological factors.

skeeter1: What is it with hair?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:04:38 EST
When I was in college, I was a long-haired hippy. After that, I entered the workforce and had to get a "decent" haircut. Last year, I had to undergo chemotherapy, and my hair fell out. It's grown back in, but I'm probably going to shear i

thefadd: I cum 2 u 4 w!sd0m 0h w!s3 1

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:02:49 EST
be�lief /bɪˈlif/ -noun - something believed; an opinion or conviction.
in�nate /ɪˈneɪt, ˈɪneɪt/ -adjective - existing in one from birth; inborn; native.
How exactly are "beliefs" "innate."

zyxwvutsr: Re: The hair of modern man

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:40:05 EST

Here are some modern hair styles for your edification
I'd guess that 1/2 - 2/3 of those styles would be considered inappropriate for most workplaces. (Though to be honest I didn't scroll down all the way, so maybe it gets bet

zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:33:37 EST

Gender is determined by individuals based on their beliefs about sex
Most such beliefs are innate, and correlate very exactly with sex.

MayorBob: Playing Along With Ken.

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:52:26 EST
"I thought you said you saw his photo."

Yes I did say that. Thus I saw it. Looked a bit windswept to me.

"That's not "big," that's "unkempt." And that's unlikely to ever be in fashion."

Unkempt ... windswept.

Lou: The hair of modern man

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:50:47 EST
And that's unlikely to ever be in fashion.
Here are some modern hair styles for your edification. Look closely and you'll see that maybe half of these stylish "do's

thefadd: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:43:52 EST
Gender is not determined by sex. Gender is determined by individuals based on their beliefs about sex. Gender is a liberalized, intangible concept.

zyxwvutsr: Re: societal standards?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:32:25 EST

Which "societal standard" are we talking about here? The one that says men and boys can't have long hair (that died 30-40 years ago) or the one which says "you must do as the authorities tell you" (which is apparently timeless)?

zyxwvutsr: Re: Yes, I saw the photo of the kid.

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:28:31 EST

He's what, about five or six? What sort of job is he going to apply for?
According to that logic there's no need to teach him math either, since he can always learn it later.
...perhaps big hair will return

zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:24:57 EST

Gender is a wholly social construct
What an absurd thing to say. Except in a tiny number of cases, gender is almost entirely determined by sex.

thefadd: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:03:13 EST
Job interview? He's not going to just live off the indian casino payments?

thefadd: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:56:32 EST
Part of being human is being bound by sex. Gender is a wholly social construct.

ivyafire: Re: it's a shame

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:40:21 EST
Also, you've gone on record as having a somewhat atypical daughter. I bring this up only to note that I'm trying to describe the typical patterns in boys' behavior one would expect Arocha to encounter, so she's not the best counterexample.
Maybe

MC Nally: Re: knives

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:18:55 EST

> What if his religion said he had to carry a knife to school? [...]
OK, do we have an instance where that is happening? It's hair.
Actually there are quite a few instances of the "what if his religion said he had to

MayorBob: Yes, I saw the photo of the kid.

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:10:34 EST
He's what, about five or six? What sort of job is he going to apply for? Oh, you meant what sort of job would he apply for 12 to 20 years from now. Fashions change and, who knows, perhaps big hair will return with a vengeance.

MC Nally: societal standards?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:58:14 EST

I don't know what their reasons are, but the obvious one is that they intend to teach the lesson that non conformance with societal standards does not lead to success in life.
Which "societal standard" are we talking about here? &nb

gerrymander: Re: it's a shame

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:31:59 EST
Hair can be dealt with without cutting - it can be tucked under a helmet, braided, whatever.
Yeah, forcing all kids to wear mandatory helmets during recess because of one prissy parent is surely the solution imposing the least infringement on per

port1080: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:40:41 EST
Having a non-standard hair cut might exclude you from an interview from some jobs, but certainly not all. This blog entry sort of sums

zyxwvutsr: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:15:09 EST

The idea that there is one ideal work culture and path to success may have been true in the 1950s (although again, I'm skeptical), but that's hardly the case now
Did you see the photo of the kid? Can you imagine the difficult

zyxwvutsr: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:11:57 EST

We might as well outlaw evolution...Cutting hair wore long for religious reasons - Not optional
Suppose a student refused to attend a required biology class due to religious objections. Would you support that as well?

port1080: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:18:11 EST
I am ambivalent about the Texas school's rules, but I can see that an argument could be made that the role of a public school goes beyond the narrowest academic mission - all sorts of public schools intervene in their students' lives in ways that fall f

Lou: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:41:09 EST
If you are against grooming rules on principle, are you similarly opposed to schools having free lunch programs or sex education?
Free lunch - optional.
Sex ed - Optional in some districts, iirc. Otherwise, it's an academic subject so I

zyxwvutsr: Re: A pledge rune! On your cuneiform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:36:14 EST

You may secretly love this grooming rule since it encourages the kind of conformance that leads to success in life
Secretly? Does the content and style of my comments here on Tree and Tree lead you to believe that I am prone

Lou: Ireland, 795 AD

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:29:42 EST
My long ago ancestors can attest that after being pillaged by the Vikings, long hair didn't slow down their tormentors.

Lou: A pledge pin! On your uniform?

Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:25:15 EST
but the obvious one is that they intend to teach the lesson that non conformance with societal standards does not lead to success in life.
Who are you, So

zyxwvutsr: Re: Slapping the forehead

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:42:40 EST

How could I forget?
So you're willing to admit that rules about hair can be a measure to instill discipline? (Come on, man, stay focused.)
Yet you seem to support it
I do? What

Lou: Slapping the forehead

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:30:30 EST
Yeah, tell it to the Army.
Oh Jeez! How could I forget? We do have to instill discipline in the little buggers so they'll be more easily formed when they're needed for the next war.
Well, duh. Do pay attention next time.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Now it becomes clearer

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:07:30 EST

Arbitrary rules about hair length won't instill discipline
Yeah, tell it to the Army.
Our Adminisbots just want to throw their weight around
Well, duh. Do pay attention next time.

Lou: Now it becomes clearer

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:27:02 EST
-Teach hygiene: Silly. You wash short hair the same way you wash long hair...it just takes more effort. Is there any indication that the young man did not wash his hair?
-Instill discipline: Silly. Arbitrary rules about hair length won

zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo

Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:04:56 EST

How is long hair on a boy and more disruptive on a boy then a girl?
It's not disruptive as far as I can ascertain, but the school's policy has several justifications for its existence:
The district's dress code
zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:57:30 EST This is not a crazy violation of school rules. It's a hairstyle It is a crazy violation of school rules. It is a violation that is based on religion. That's crazy. I get the sense that you are arguing against Lou: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:38:43 EST What if his religion said he had to carry a knife to school? Or what if his religion demanded that he disrupt class in order to pray? Are there any such requests in the pipeline? (Although a Canadian Sikh student can wear his ceremonial kni ivyafire: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:09:07 EST What if his religion said he had to carry a knife to school? Or what if his religion demanded that he disrupt class in order to pray? Does the school have to allow any crazy violation of the rules if the student claims that an act is based on his person zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:57:41 EST I think it's ridiculous that they they can violate his religionWhat if his religion said he had to carry a knife to school? Or what if his religion demanded that he disrupt class in order to pray? Does the school have to all ivyafire: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:29:53 EST No. I think it's ridiculous that they they can violate his religion. What differences between boys and girls are necessary to acknowledge? Until we get to restroom facilities I don't think there is an issue. zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:27:32 EST So you think it's okay to have different rules for boys and girls in public schools as long as it is based on religion? ivyafire: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:52:55 EST I'm not arguing in favor of public school grooming codes. But if a school does establish a grooming code, why shouldn't we accept that the standards could be different for boys and girls? Not when it comes to respecting religion. ivyafire: Re: it's a shame Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:23:51 EST Perhaps a reason like, "boys tend to rougher, more physical play, which can lead to greater chances of injury for those with long hair"? lol I've got a 10 year old girl who put a hole in one of our walls when she was 8. And she outweighsLou: Leave it to Beaver Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:55:58 EST "boys tend to rougher, more physical play, which can lead to greater chances of injury for those with long hair"? So, I guess you've never seen Girls Lacrosse< gerrymander: Re: it's a shame Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:07:30 EST They've already established they don't care about hair length in and of itself, since there is no such rule for girls. What that establishes is that they don't care about girls' hair length. So unless they can come up with a good reason why zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:09:44 EST ...it's grade school I'm not arguing in favor of public school grooming codes. But if a school does establish a grooming code, why shouldn't we accept that the standards could be different for boys and girls? zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:05:13 EST i wish people could just be people and not feel bound by genderPart of being human is being bound by gender. You might as well wish that people did not need to eat, drink, and sleep. ivyafire: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:22:11 EST Why? Why not? It isn't work, or the military, it's grade school. I just can't wrap my head around the supreme court of the state saying it's OK for the school to require him to violate his religion so he can go to their school. D ivyafire: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:14:28 EST I agree. If it's unsafe, then it's unsafe for both sexes. If it's based strictly on sex, it's discriminatory. Sadly, I'm not very surprised at the decision, but they were wrong. :( I just can't help thinking in another state it Dyolf Knip: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:32:40 EST Well, look at it this way. They've already established they don't care about hair length in and of itself, since there is no such rule for girls. So unless they can come up with a good reason why our delicate Y-chromosomes can't handle all that songofthepogo: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:45:15 EST Why? honestly, i don't have a good answer for you. it rubs me the wrong way, basically. i'm bothered by the institutional enforcement of what i consider to be a pointless gender stereotype. that irks me. as much as zyxwvutsr: Re: it's a shame to waste such pretty ho on a bo Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:11:10 EST if the school is going to enforce a hair-length rule, it should apply equally to both gendersWhy? songofthepogo: it's a shame to waste such pretty hair on a boy Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:58:48 EST is probably something my mom would say in jest. in all seriousness, it strikes me as unfair that there's a length restriction for boys, but not girls. that's plain silly. if the school is going to enforce a hair-length rule, it should app