JimmyHavok: OMG!!!

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:27:04 EST

The dude is a one-man gaffe machine.

Almost as many gaffes since the beginning of the campaign as McCain has made this week! And such substantial ones, too!

The scales have fallen from my eyes. I'm voting for the senile old man.

gerrymander: house of glass, lawn of rocks

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:08:06 EST

I'm not sure you really want to go toe-to-toe on an Obama v. McCain stupid speech match-up. The recent Obama mistakes I can roll off the top of my head include: not knowing how long a Yglesias h

1fastdog: Thwap, thwap, thwap.....

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:13:26 EST

and in it he's completely reversed everything he said in his first submission.

Well, he's got to keep his reputation intact, doesn't he?

keta: Re: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:10:01 EST

He has, thefadd, and in it he's completely reversed everything he said in his first submission.

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:09:34 EST

I think what we're seeing lately is less about Obama rising up over, and more about the media going down on.

thefadd: Re: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:45:22 EST

But, truth be told, I think at this point McCain has probably given up pursuing the publication of his op-ed piece satisfied that, by virtue of the blow up, he's got more publicity out of it than if the thing had been published.

I wouldn't be

zyxwvutsr: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:28:55 EST

Obama transcends editorial policy.

MayorBob: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:21:24 EST

Yes, I appreciate that (and thefadd struck the nail on the head with the apt analogy). Were this a heavily monitored web site and you were playing Gatekeeper, it would be entirely within your right to reject to post my comment and force me to either rewri

Lou: Re: Sorry, Mayorbob

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:06:53 EST

Actually...it's more like the Plastic subq...with a lot less snark and invective.

thefadd: Re: Sorry, Mayorbob

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:58:46 EST

kinda like the subQ, eh?

profwhat: Sorry, Mayorbob

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:49:13 EST

Thank you for sending me this comment. I'd be very eager to publish you on Trees and Things. However, I'm not going to be able to accept this comment as written.

I'd be pleased, though, to look at another draft. Let me suggest an approach.

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:53:02 EST

The NYT's decision to treat McCain's piece (and Obama's as well) as part of their opinion section is an editorial choice. When the two people who are running for the top office in government offer a chance to publish their words unmediated, that's n

wetkarma: Re: Same Old,Sam old

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:49:38 EST

Well, (new to me)

Deployment of 2 additional combat brigades to Afghanistan (presumably taken from Iraq).
A 16 month reduction in force in opposition to what Petraeus recommends.
The idea that the su

Jackkeefe: Re: Same Old,Sam old

Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:14:16 EST

I think the NYT makes a fair point that little of what McCain wrote was 'new'.

At the same, little that Obama wrote was new. Obama used his op-ed to remind readers that he was against the war from the beginning, supports a phased withdrawl

MayorBob: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:20:02 EST

Gerry, here you're referring to news coverage. What the McCain piece was was an op ed piece. You do see the difference between the two don't you?

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:13:29 EST

Remarking how Obama was wrong about the surge and hasn't apologized for that hardly qualifies as something new, much less some insight into candidate McCain's vision for the region.

Based on that assessment, shouldn't the NYT have declined

skeeter1: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:42:11 EST

"But if it truly wants to be considered a paper of record, with high standards and a general reputation for unbiased coverage, then I think this was a bad move."

The NYT used to brag about being "America's Newspaper of Record". It hasn't be

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:17:04 EST

They didn't let Obama just post his talking points--he moved the Iraqi conversation forward.

Not quite; he moved his position on Iraq forward, from "the surge will fail" to "the surge has succeeded." McCain didn't need to change his position, bec

thefadd: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:03:55 EST

It's my understanding that they said no to what McCain wrote with the constructive criticism that they would happily run an op-ed if he were to saying something new. They didn't let Obama just post his talking points--he moved the Iraqi conversation forwar

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:54:23 EST

I don't think they've said a final, "No," to McCain though. The said, "not in this form."

What other forum would there be? Are they going to give him an advice column?

thefadd: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:52:51 EST

I don't think they've said a final, "No," to McCain though. The said, "not in this form." I think that's enough of an out for them and a nuance to the "NYT Says NO To McCain" type headline that media (even the NYT) love to run even when it's not really tru

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:41:05 EST

Therefore, it's not their responsibility to run anything the presumptive candidate of the Republican Party throws over the transom.

I agree with this, to an extent, but my response is that the NYT can't have it both ways. If it wants to be

MayorBob: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:13:42 EST

To which I would respond, who owns the printing presses of the New York Times? I believe it would be the paper. Therefore, it's not their responsibility to run anything the presumptive candidate of the Republican Party throws over the transom. If the pr

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:08:55 EST

I know that in campaigns, candidates can get used to talking in soundbites - but how about throwing a bone to those willing to pay a bit more attention to what is said.

All well and good, but is it a newspaper's responsibility to do that?

wetkarma: the flaws in mccain's approach

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:26:09 EST

The NYT was probably looking for a compare and contrast op-ed. McCain's plan for Iraq and Afghanistan vs. Obamas. Instead what McCain submitted was a 'look how Obama was wrong on the surge'.

I think the NYT makes a fair point that little of what McCain

zyxwvutsr: Re: Obviously I'm Not In The Race For +5 Mods.

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:55:26 EST

The NYT has allowed McCain editorial page space something like seven times in the past couple of years to run his op-ed pieces on this, that and the other

This is the first time that McCain was running against a Democratic op

MayorBob: Obviously I'm Not In The Race For +5 Mods.

Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:54:21 EST

The NYT has allowed McCain editorial page space something like seven times in the past couple of years to run his op-ed pieces on this, that and the other. I hardly think the Times would shrink from publishing another had it responded to Obama's pi

NY Times to McCain: Negative ghostrider, the newspaper is full. (Trees And Things)

JimmyHavok: OMG!!!

gerrymander: house of glass, lawn of rocks

thefadd: Re: NY Times Didn't Ignore Just McCain

1fastdog: Thwap, thwap, thwap.....

keta: Re: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

thefadd: Re: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

zyxwvutsr: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

MayorBob: Waaah! I Want My First Amendment! Waah!

Lou: Re: Sorry, Mayorbob

thefadd: Re: Sorry, Mayorbob

profwhat: Sorry, Mayorbob

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

wetkarma: Re: Same Old,Sam old

Jackkeefe: Re: Same Old,Sam old

MayorBob: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

skeeter1: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

gerrymander: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

thefadd: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

thefadd: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

MayorBob: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

port1080: Re: the flaws in mccain's approach

wetkarma: the flaws in mccain's approach

zyxwvutsr: Re: Obviously I'm Not In The Race For +5 Mods.

MayorBob: Obviously I'm Not In The Race For +5 Mods.