http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407 Based on a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/07/judge-orders-yo.html">court ruling</a> yesterday, Google must turn over all records of every YouTube video ever watched- and the user data and IP's of visitors as well.  It also has to turn over copies of any videos taken down for any reason.  It seems that when they "take down" a video they don't actually delete it, but rather "hide" it from view (something I didn't know).  Here's <a rel="nofollow" href="http://blog. en-us Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:02:02 EST Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:26:00 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#19 Fear does not enter into the equation. My business relationship is with Google, not Viacom. Certain other users breached their agreement with Google by posting Viacom owned content. I've done nothing wrong so the privileges afforded me by my contractual re Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:26:00 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#18 Only 15% of Americans who have Internet access at home use <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pewinternet.org/press_release.asp?r=305">dialup</a> these days.<p> According to w3c, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp" Sun, 6 Jul 2008 23:01:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#17 "If you flush your browser cache and cookies each time (as is default with firefox)"<p> Don't know where you got that idea.  Firefox respects the web server's instructions with regard to the lifetime of cookies, just like any other browser.  Fire Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:09:27 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#16 But say you are a user of a dialup modem service. So you get a new IP every time you login. If you flush your browser cache and cookies each time (as is default with firefox) how does Google and others differentiate between you on the dialup IP today and t Sun, 6 Jul 2008 09:13:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#15 <i>Does that mean that if someone hacks into my wireless router (unlikely) that I'll be held accountable?</i><p> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cybercrimelaw.org/2007/10/05/open-wireless-defense-not-so-successful/">Yes</a>. Sun, 6 Jul 2008 08:39:04 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#14 It's been tried.  TorrentSpy.com, a large bittorrent search site, did exactly that: they never kept logs of users.  Then a federal judge in California <a rel="nofollow" href="http://news.cnet.com/TorrentSpy-ordered-to-start-tracking-visitors/2100 Sun, 6 Jul 2008 08:30:39 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#13 <i>"The IP address issue is a ridiculous invasion of privacy."</i><p> Does that mean that if someone hacks into my wireless router (unlikely) that I'll be held accountable?  I've got the firewall set and WEP-security enabled.  The IP address only Sat, 5 Jul 2008 19:53:33 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#12 along those very lines, there's a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/05/2138229">new discussion</a> on slashdot suggesting that instead of holding personally identifiable information for 18 months before anonymizing it, as Sat, 5 Jul 2008 17:32:55 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#11 Maybe Viacom would at least stop short of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/business/05nocera.html?_r=1&oref=slogin">taking candy from a baby</a>. ;)<p> <blockquote><i>Sergey Brin said he had no sympathy for the parents, and tha Sat, 5 Jul 2008 17:04:38 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#10 <blockquote>Do I have more to fear from Viacom than I have to fear from Google?</blockquote><br> <p>quite possibly.  certainly, google is not entirely without suspicion in this case.  if they regularly flushed their logs, rather than keeping the Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:13:57 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#9 <i>asking for and getting user names and IP address is a total invasion of privacy</i><p> If <b>Google</b> already knows this stuff about me, then it is not "privacy" at all.  Why should I be concerned that <b>Viacom</b> gets to know it, too?  Do Fri, 4 Jul 2008 21:06:00 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#8 Logs of user data are the foundation of Google's entire business.  Their revenues rely on being able to show you a relevant advertisement, and their logs of past user actions are the means by which Google can back-test new ad selection programs. &nbsp Fri, 4 Jul 2008 18:15:30 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#7 <blockquote>The IP address issue is a ridiculous invasion of privacy. A class action suit should be immediately filed on behalf of all youtube users to enjoin Viacom from having access to that data. The judge is throwing a blanket of guilt over every youtu Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:28:05 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#6 Given that the NBC-News Corp venture Hulu <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/hulu_to_earn_up_to_90m_in_first_year.php">is already reporting a profit</a> and Viacom likely <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/6/ Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:39:43 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#5 it would make for a fairly ludicrous and implausible lawsuit, it's true (at least in a sane world).  one wonders what other reasons viacom might have for requesting so much data.  google maintains massive quantities of data on users in order to t Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:10:05 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#4 This would not have occurred if YouTube had simply flushed its logs after every seven days or so. What is the need to retain information on users indefinitely?<p> Verizon et al are always bitching and moaning about having to comply with RIAA subpoenas and Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:10:16 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#3 You make an interesting argument.  If it should turn out that everybody who has watched copyrighted material on youtube is now going to be sued by Viacom (which would be millions of people in many different countries) that would make for quite a lawsu Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:07:19 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#2 <blockquote>As for the loss of privacy, if (as claimed) the only purpose for which Viacom has obtained all this personal information is to make a statistical analysis with which to demonstrate the extent of the copyright violations taking place, then nobod Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:26:54 EST http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2008/7/3/201256/6407#1 Since youtube is supposedly about you, the user, it has always seemed a bit odd to me that it contains so many videos that are excerpted from copyrighted material not originally recorded by the user.  I believe that the theory is that the user who pos Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:34:22 EST string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/