Should Presumed Consent Be The Law Of The Land? (Trees And Things)

delete me: Re: Condiment for TnT

Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:05:26 EST

I thought the difference was that catsup had sugar, and ketchup has deadly High Fructose Corn Syrup.

thefadd: Re: Eliminate the presumption by requiring an answ

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 22:36:16 EST

Because it would require less paperwork.

skeeter1: Re: Condiment for TnT

Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:43:29 EST

"The arguments here are often so subtle and fast that I can barely ketchup."

Where I came from (both time and place), it was spelled catsup. Same stuff, but I like the old spelling better. That's the Bohemian in me, I guess.

port1080: Re: studying the incentives

Sun, 3 Aug 2008 08:40:33 EST

Apply that idea on a wider scale, and you've just killed Medicare and welfare. Arguably, that's not the direction you intend to go.

That's not exactly analogous, because quite a few people who end up collecting Medicaid and welfare (and most peop

Lou: Re: studying the incentives

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:06:29 EST

or you could come back and haunt them...

woooWOOOwooo

JimmyHavok: Re: studying the incentives

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:01:56 EST

A little late, at that point.

JimmyHavok: Re: Not that it isn't a ghastly thing.

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 22:00:50 EST

Also, "everyone does it" is a defense with a long history going all the way back to kindergarten. Just because someone who tried to harvest an organ says that everyone does it doesn't mean that everyone does it, any more than someone who steals your

JimmyHavok: Re: studying the incentives

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:55:30 EST

Keep going that way and you've also destroyed capitalism...I can see why you wouldn't want to go there.

Lou: Re: cold, hard cash

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:23:27 EST

wait, what...ewwww

Lou: Condiment for TnT

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:22:41 EST

The arguments here are often so subtle and fast that I can barely ketchup.

MayorBob: The two that always get my attention ...

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:13:08 EST

are teh vice the and loose for lose.

Degee: Re: cold, hard cash

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:32:48 EST

"I'm pretty sure that wouldn't pass constitutional muster."

I'm so delighted that you used the word "muster". I've seen so many posts that used the word "mustard" instead.

perhaps they were changing diapers while posting.

gerrymander: OT: spelling mistakes

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:30:18 EST

Much appreciated, skeeter.

The one that gets me is the increasing use of "payed" as the past tense of "pay."

gerrymander: Re: studying the incentives

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:28:00 EST

So, I have a simple solution. If you aren't an organ donor, you can't receive donated organs. How's that sound?

"Unless you contribute, you don't receive benefits." Apply that idea on a wider scale, and you've just killed Medicare and

skeeter1: Re: cold, hard cash

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:09:30 EST

"I'm pretty sure that wouldn't pass constitutional muster."

I'm so delighted that you used the word "muster". I've seen so many posts that used the word "mustard" instead. I'm giving you +10 for having a well-educated brain!

delete me: Re: Eliminate the presumption by requiring an answ

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:00:19 EST

The EMTs can add the sticker to your license when they pull your mangled body from your wrecked car.

ivyafire: Re: studying the incentives

Sat, 2 Aug 2008 01:26:48 EST

Wow...I'd immediately leave someone with such little regard for my wishes.
The funny thing is, there are a lot of people who feel the exact same way.

So do you leave over the hypothetical overriding of your wish when you actually agree

MC Nally: Re: Eliminate the presumption by requiring an answ

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 20:34:28 EST

thefadd wrote:

I have an idea for a system. If people want to donate their organs, then they can put a sticker on their driver's license saying that's what they'd like to have happen. If people don't want to do something (like say donate organs)

thefadd: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:50:07 EST

Wow...I'd immediately leave someone with such little regard for my wishes.

thefadd: Re: Eliminate the presumption by requiring an answ

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:48:05 EST

I have an idea for a system. If people want to donate their organs, then they can put a sticker on their driver's license saying that's what they'd like to have happen. If people don't want to do something (like say donate organs), then they don't have to

MayorBob: Not that it isn't a ghastly thing.

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:42:29 EST

But, both those links were about the same case.

pO157: Life/death decisions get made in the field

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:30:55 EST

I'd argue that most of the life and death decisions get made in the field. When you do something stupid and end splattered all across the pavement, or drop dead inside your house from a massive heart problem, or whatever it is usually the responding ambula

Lou: Donation

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:44:22 EST

I hope they get this worked out soon or we may all be facing a dark future if we choose to be organ donors.

ivyafire: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:17:14 EST

My wife supports organ donation, I don't. We're both atheists but my view on organ donation is that there is non-zero chance (as proven in quite a few medical cases) where a declared organ donor does not receive maximum effort to preserve his life in or

skeptic: organ thieves

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:11:41 EST
If I ever felt that our society was developing a significant risk of people being killed for their organs, I would favor a much more radical solution than merely the requirement for a signed consent card - a requirement which, as you point out, actual orga

1fastdog: for fuck's sake

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:40:25 EST
It happens -- and a lot more often than organ donation advocates would prefer to admit.
If there are truly all of these wretched organ wranglers out there just waiting to slice you up and take your innards, I'm guessin' that they'd not give a fl

Degee: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:32:49 EST
Wouldn't compensating the organ donor's heirs increase the "non-zero" chance of not getting full medical treatment in borderline life or death situations? I think that at the very least the public apprehension of the same would increase. If so, how w

1fastdog: asked. answered. license printed.

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:25:10 EST
So my suggestion is: eliminate having a default answer at all and require an answer in order to get or renew a license. In a few years everyone will have a preference on record and nobody will have to presume anything.
That's how it w

wetkarma: hastening death to get organs

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:02:41 EST
Here is a Feb, 2008 story where a New York doctor is alleged to have given excess sedatives to a 25 year old man to get his organs.
Another one from

wetkarma: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:53:44 EST
I'm all for such a 'pay to play' approach which requires people to commit to being an organ donor in order to benefit. Unfortunately for the world however, medical treatment doesn't work that way.
Priority is given to those most ill under the current or

Lou: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:53:25 EST
declared organ donor does not receive maximum effort to preserve his life in order for his organs to be retrieved.
That's kind of creepy in a Niven-esque way. Any links? I'd like to read more about it.

port1080: Re: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:34:30 EST
You know economic theory, so you obviously realize you're being a freerider on the system. I know you generally don't have moral qualms about, well, much of anything, but I think you can see how freeriders are generally a problem as they put an undue

wetkarma: studying the incentives

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:25:03 EST
Under the current opt-in system, if I don't have my card on me at the time - then my organs don't get taken. However under presumed consent, if I go to all the trouble of opting out, my organs would still be taken if somehow my card was not on me/not

MC Nally: Eliminate the presumption by requiring an answer.

Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:16:53 EST
It seems to me that rather than presume consent, a better approach is to require an indication of organ donation preference on driver license applications and renewals. Perhaps it works differently in Canada but in the states I've lived in in

delete me: Re: cold, hard cash

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:40:30 EST
Next on CSI - killed by greedy relatives since your healthy heart ($90k on the market) won't let you die early enough otherwise.

gerrymander: cold, hard cash

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:27:20 EST
But more seriously, how would presumed consent match with freedom of religion? The government would have to start insisting people carry ID with religious affiliation to prevent a member of a "no medical treatment" congregation from having their organs don

gerrymander: prequel to 'Jigsaw Man'

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:18:30 EST
I can see the CSI plot already: There's a killer on the loose! No one can find any link between the victims, until one of the intrepid investigators notices that all the emergency calls about the bodies were made from one-use untraceable cellphones. Why wo

skeeter1: Presumed, my butt!

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:27:50 EST
"Presumed consent". I'm sorry, but it's just one more indication that we have too many lawyers/lawmakers in the US. What's next? Presumed foreclosure on a paid-off house? Presumed repo on a paid off car? Presumed confiscation