This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II) (Trees And Things)

skeptic: Re: children vs. puppies

Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:56:12 EST

It's true, a person who cannot successfully raise a puppy also cannot successfully raise a child. But it is not true that a person who can successfully raise a puppy can also successfully raise a child. Children are more difficult. So ide

JimmyHavok: Re: children vs. puppies

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:33:45 EST

The correlation doesn't have to be exact, it's only a low bar. If you can't make it over that minimum requirement, you definitely don't have the skills to be a parent.

skeptic: the end of the world

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:55:45 EST

It does seem likely that some kind of massive die-off lies in the future of the human race. It could well involve the spread of some catastrophic pandemic, either of accidental or deliberate origin, as you imagine. Global warming, with conseque

WMK: Re: the corporate dystopia

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:41:43 EST

The problem does seem dire and your forecast for environmental collapse in spite of SOME (or even many) people getting it into their heads to live more sustainably due to the inexorable ever increasing weight of sheer population volume seems depressingly r

skeptic: children vs. puppies

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:12:01 EST

Although this is a charming suggestion, I wouldn't really want to implement it. I do not believe that there is an exact correlation between the ability to raise a puppy and the ability to raise a child. There is certainly SOME connection, but n

skeptic: the corporate dystopia

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:55:25 EST

I agree that if it turns out to be corporations, rather than democratically elected governments, who regulate families or reproduction, the result would be quite unpleasant and would not accomplish what I would hope to accomplish through reproductive regul

WMK: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:59:18 EST

This 'parenting license' thing you propose is a massive piece of social engineering - that right there should tell you how improbable it is that it will ever be implemented. If it were ever made into a law - the majority of the worlds population woul

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:59:55 EST

Good question. I do not have a dream of maintaining any kind of racial balance - indeed, I believe that human beings of every ethnicity are members of the human race, and so even the concept of "racial balance" is a misnomer at best. My concern

gerrymander: Re: The Kellys may not end up profiting from this.

Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:36:13 EST

If the suit gets to trial, then your assessment is spot on, MayorBob. That said, I think the hurdles in getting the lawsuit to trial are high and numerous.

The big question is whether the Kellys have standing; that is to say, if the court decides they h

JimmyHavok: pretzel logic

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:35:44 EST

You think the answer to this situation is less government? How would that have helped Danieal?

We had less government here in Hawaii, and that means our high-profile ch

JimmyHavok: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:29:30 EST

You don't need any of that. All you would have to do to qualify for a Parenting License is raise a puppy to be a healthy (mentally and physically) adult dog. If you can't do that, you can't be a parent.

Lou: Lacking smoking lore

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:26:18 EST

Isn't the burning tip of a cigarette sometimes called a coal?

Degee: Fire chief Bunyan

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:59:11 EST

then flicking the coal ...

I wouldn't mess with a guy who smokes the kind of cigarettes that you can flick coal from.

Lou: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:10:44 EST

Allow me to take a mulligan on my "Doomed?" comment. I re-read who was suing who. Never mind.

MayorBob: The Kellys may not end up profiting from this.

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:03:34 EST

However, it doesn't mean the lawsuit might not bear fruit. DHS, and the city, are being sued for gross neglect and malfeasance in failing to protect Danieal. The parents will likely be dismissed as beneficiaries or trustees of any money award due to the

Lou: Doomed?

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:45:51 EST

Your point about not being able to sue police and fireman is a good one. But I wonder how doomed this case would be. To use the analogy, it would be like the fireman standing next to a burning building smoking a cigarette...then flicking the co

gerrymander: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:03:31 EST

A lawsuit has been filed suing the city of Philadelphia and DHS for not doing their job. The plaintiffs in the lawsuit are Andrea and Daniel Kelly.

That's a mildly interesting argument, but one doomed to failure. There's plenty of case law which

Lou: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:03:11 EST

You realize this is incompatible with your dream of maintaining the worlds racial balance?

Does Skeptic have a dream of maintaining racial balance?

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:30:05 EST

My idea is not BASED on one horrible case, I merely used that one horrible case as the conversational opening to allow me raise the idea of regulating the process of human reproduction (in a comment which, I will point out, one moderator actually found to

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:27:18 EST

There is nothing illogical about the idea that if the government has failed, we need to have better government. We don't necessarily have to give up on the whole concept of government and embrace anarchism. Similarly, if a farm has failed, we might n

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:23:19 EST

Well of course, if I were actually designing a system of reproductive licensing I would do exactly as you say, and take every precaution to avoid catastrophic failure and to do as little damage as possible. I am, however, not actually designing a sys

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:19:22 EST

I am delighted to discover that there is at least one absurd question that you wouldn't ask me.

And certainly, there could be a change in the ethnic make-up of the world as a by-product of selecting for higher IQ. I don't object to that, as long a

Steve Urkel: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:54:38 EST

"You might, of course, ask how I could guarantee that the system would not be abused"

Actually I wouldn't ask such an absurd question.

"that better educated, successful, and more intelligent people would be considered to be potentially better parents

MayorBob: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:40:53 EST

Especially since skeptic is proposing such a radical social change based on one horrible case of personal and institutional neglect, neglecting the vast majority of children who don't get abused and neglected by their parents, much less starved to death.

thefadd: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:25:36 EST
It is sort of baffling that a government failure could lead someone to conclude that the answer is more government, isn't it?

arromdee: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:51:09 EST
This is a potential problem, however, we can only do our best to make governments that work, and which serve the public need rather than serving only their own corrupt officials.
It's not enough to dismiss the possibilities of abuse by say

zyxwvutsr: Re: Como se dice: "it sucked to be you"?

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:59:35 EST

Empathy and Morality...are learned behaviors
Nope.

We are not animals

WMK: Como se dice: "it sucks to be you"?

Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:37:24 EST
It was a little sickening, but whadda ya gonna do? People are animals.<quote>
Howzabout rip the moral equivalent of a loud fart in a crowded elevator - by way of your comment on this thread?
What would the qualifications be?

zyxwvutsr: Re: It was merely a rhetorical flourish.

Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:34:18 EST
It was a little sickening, but whadda ya gonna do? People are animals.
(As far as my insouciance, better that than obnoxiousness like ms_sue says.)

skeptic: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:52:05 EST
I agree with you that this particular family probably shouldn't have been allowed to have children. Everybody is presumed to be capable of being acceptable parents until such time as they prove otherwise by inflicting great harm, or death, on their c

MayorBob: It was merely a rhetorical flourish.

Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:12:07 EST
It probably would work better if I had finished with "it should distress (or infuriate) everyone who reads about her." But, with your practiced insouciance, I have the feeling you wouldn't be distressed no matter where Danieal spent her last days on earth

zyxwvutsr: Re: This One Really Pisses Me Off (Part II)

Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:54:08 EST

She died as a city agency, which is charged with protecting people like Danieal, looked the other way and falsified records that she was receiving sufficient family care. Danieal Kelly didn't have to die, but she did, and it should worry