Public Housing a Public Nightmare? (Trees And Things)

pO157: Re: Here's the thing.

Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:23:16 EST

Look at the link Steve Urkel provided on Section 8. What good does it do society if it merely transplants crime from the 'hood to once viable, safe areas? My city is having this problem as first ring suburbs are starting to get overrun with violent crime a

thefadd: Re: Here's the thing.

Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:48:29 EST

Government spending cured the depression? It ended poverty? Then how come we've been dumping cash by the ton into these programs for the past 70 years and there are still ghettos? There are still poor people? There are still people living in deplorable

zyxwvutsr: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:25:57 EST

...as those programs were attacked
When was that, 1943?

JimmyHavok: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:48:10 EST
The poverty rate before those programs, before the Depression, was 30+%. The rate dropped over the years until it reached 11%, and has only crept up as those programs were attacked.
We spend a lot of money on police, but there are still robberies

ms sue: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:49:04 EST
It ended poverty?
I don't believe that JH made that claim.

pO157: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:51:20 EST
Wait a minute. Government spending cured the depression? It ended poverty? Then how come we've been dumping cash by the ton into these programs for the past 70 years and there are still ghettos? There are still poor people? There are still people living in

JimmyHavok: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:42:01 EST
Social Security was started during the Depression when poverty was high. When the depression ended poverty would have been reduced anyway.
That's just as high above the shark as claiming that it doesn't matter if your parents are rich or poor. &

JimmyHavok: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:38:18 EST
Your assumption is that "health and human services" is 100% welfare. But there are a lot of things covered under that heading, from vaccination programs to TB certifications for food service workers.
Have a look at the New Hampshire How much of the budget goes to w

DEMachina: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:45:03 EST
You may feel confident saying the majority, but that doesn't make it so. What are you basing these conclusions on?

DEMachina: Re: Here's the thing.

Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:44:17 EST
I've heard the whole "the private sector can do things better than the gov't" argument before, but I've never found it especially compelling. For example, how do you explain the dramatic decrease in poverty among the elderly after the establishment o

pO157: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:21:59 EST
If charities were doing the job, we never would have started the public welfare system in the first place.
And if taxes weren't so high because of our bloated welfare state people would have more money (and be more likely to give --- who wants

JimmyHavok: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:01:03 EST
If charities were doing the job, we never would have started the public welfare system in the first place.
From what I can see, the problems stem from punitive rules, not from easy money. If you do some work, your benefits get cut, and you end up

pO157: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:43:42 EST
Exactly. Get rid of the government bureaucrats (who have a vested interest in perpetuating the cycle of poverty) and replace them with private charities that can competently seperate the wheat from the chaff (or leeches from the disabled or whatever). The

pO157: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:39:07 EST
You bring up some interesting points. I could respond to them but I'd likely end up rehashing some things I've repeated multiple times before. So I'll just say this:
So let's remember that not everyone in these places is some miscreant who's too laz

T Slothrop: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:29:52 EST

...not everyone in these places is some miscreant who's too lazy to work for a living. Some of them can't, and we have a responsibility as human beings to take care of them.
I agree, some of the

DEMachina: Re: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:40:28 EST
In a city with large housing vacancies there should be no need for subsidization when the bottom of the market has fallen out.
That assumes that a) the economics of the situation really is that simple, and b) that even if that is the case, people

Steve Urkel: Re: My favorite part of that article

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:28:55 EST
That was good. I found amusing the description of how the academics were so puzzled by the pattern they were detecting.

pO157: Here's the thing.

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:38:29 EST
We will always have crime. We will always have crappy people who don't give a poop about anybody else. The question is what do we do about it?
As a guy who owns a home in a Class 4 dystopian shithole I am find these questions relevant to my interests.

pO157: My favorite part of that article

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:18:41 EST

In the afternoon, I visited an older resident from Dixie Homes who lives across the way from Shaw. Her apartment was dark, blinds drawn, and everyone was watching Maury Povich. A few minutes after I arrived, we heard a pounding at the door, and

skeptic: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:25:49 EST
There are at least some countries where military spending eclipses all other kinds, and I was thinking on a global level, however, I admit that I have made an exaggeration. Nonetheless, military spending is extremely high. That is my point.

gerrymander: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:13:24 EST
That, and the welfare reform Clinton passed.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:28:00 EST

As my hardcore Italian neighbor says...
Does he water the sidewalk?

pO157: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:59:50 EST
Well, I don't know if I'd be quite so flippant, but I see quite a bit of that around here. It's not uncommon to see people (even kids with their parents/responsible adult nearby) throwing garbage all around. The stop signs and lights seem to become a refus

pO157: If I was a troll, I'd say...

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:38:28 EST
They see me trollin, they hatin.
Then I'd get a t-shirt made up of some poor soul with a disability and superimpose it on there, like so. But I'm not, so I

zyxwvutsr: Re: Pubic Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:17:02 EST
Oh, come on, Lou. Joshu asked a simple question and I gave a plausible answer. Is it provocative? Sure, but it's not a troll.

Lou: Re: Pubic Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:42:30 EST
Still trolling

Steve Urkel: Exporting crime and blight

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:38:18 EST
There is a program that does that, it's known as the "Section 8" rent-subsidy voucher. It's been tremendously sucessful.

zyxwvutsr: Re: Pubic Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:33:27 EST
Pretentious? Moi?

Lou: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:01:15 EST
Troll

gerrymander: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:07:44 EST
the preponderance of resources go toward military purposes
That's not even true if we narrow the definition of "resources" to "federal tax revenue," much less if we mean the economy

zyxwvutsr: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:59:33 EST

...we do live in a world in which the preponderance of resources go toward military purposes
That word does not mean what you think it means. (Either that or you drastically overestimate the amount of resources expende

profwhat: Ending the public nightmare

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:39:31 EST
The days of the massive public housing project are ending, and that's a good thing. Housing assistance is much better when it is done through voucher programs, such as Section 8. Vouchers let people move (within reason) when conditions get bad.

joshv: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:21:19 EST
Yeah, I guess when people have already fallen through every other safety net, there's not much more you can threaten them with.

port1080: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:26:10 EST
As these people are already getting a free or highly subsidized ride, I don't know why the housing authorities can't require a little work from each resident every month as a condition of residence.
What do you do when they don't show up?

skeptic: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:08:33 EST
I'm sure it's true that the average public housing resident doesn't have a chance in hell of owning their own housing. So there are more fundamental problems in society than housing. If we could change people's lives so that it does become poss

joshv: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:52:21 EST
I guess is was a rhetorical question aimed more at public housing administrations than at the residents. As these people are already getting a free or highly subsidized ride, I don't know why the housing authorities can't require a little work from e

zyxwvutsr: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:49:22 EST

For the life of my I don't understand why the residents can't chip in a few hours a week to spruce up the place
The most obvious explanation is that they're lazy.

joshv: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:34:42 EST
The average public housing resident doesn't have a chance in hell of owning their own housing. Though I don't understand why this means they can't take a little ownership, even if enforced. In Chicago, the few remaining projects all have that "

skeptic: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:56:03 EST
We could also note that in the Soviet Union, where all housing was effectively public housing, since private ownership of housing was contrary to communist ideology, there was also generally poor housing quality (with the exception of the housing given to

zyxwvutsr: Re: Public Housing a Public Nightmare?

Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:37:47 EST
12% fewer public housing units than 10 years ago while the overall population increased by 10%. The continually low unemployment rate seems to be having a beneficial effect.