British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession (Trees And Things)

British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession (Trees And Things) http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216 When Britain's Conservative-led coalition took over two years ago, deficit-reduction and "austerity" topped its agenda. And austerity has delivered, just as Keynesians would have predicted: Britain's GDP has <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gHDe1AvCQGgVZ5YUONtYi44cr-YA?docId=0c1f72224ffc4b818507bb16bf5c73e0">dropped again</a> for another quarter (three, now), and by even more than anticipated (0.7% instead of 0.2%). en-us Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:57:34 GMT Sat, 4 Aug 2012 09:50:52 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#111 Read comment #104. Sat, 4 Aug 2012 09:50:52 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#110 PolitiFact.com must be yet another shill for Democrats.
(Of course, what you might have said if you had actually read what I linked to was that "government employment" and "federal employment" were never synonymous, and that most "government jobs" that Sat, 4 Aug 2012 02:09:17 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#109 Come on, novy, read carefully. MediaMatters is part of the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party. Didn't you know that?
I still don't know what "mail" you were referring to. Maybe I never will. Fri, 3 Aug 2012 23:43:22 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#108 I <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/05/29/government-employment-drops-under-obama-but-med/181931">DID look it up</a>, but, unsurprisingly, you can claim (and perhaps even believe) whatever you like. Everyone has been LYING to yo Fri, 3 Aug 2012 23:17:07 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#107 You look it up: federal employment was under 2 million when President Obama took office. It's 2.2 million now.
What mail are you talking about? Fri, 3 Aug 2012 22:54:55 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#106 Look it up, chuckles.
Meanwhile, stop making things so obvious by replying to your alter-ego's mail. Unless you want me to believe you were following this subject so closely that you would have read anything posted by anyone. Fri, 3 Aug 2012 21:19:24 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#105 <blockquote>...two of America's last five presidents actually reduced federal employment: Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama...</blockquote>Ho ho! Fri, 3 Aug 2012 20:12:50 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#104 No one ever "knows what [they] are talking about" except you/ Zyx, even if that requires repeating outright lies over and over again, like so many others on America's new right.
"The stimulus was larger than the one Krugman initially called for." Horse Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:45:13 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#103 The stimulus was larger than the one Krugman initially called for. It failed to meet the projections of the models White House economists were using. If they are using the wrong Keynesian models, why doesn't Krugman call them and inform them of the correct Fri, 3 Aug 2012 18:05:23 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#102 You see, this is where you just look pathetic. He clearly said, up front, that the stimulus was insufficient yet you still carp on like that never happened. There is no inflation and no, this ISN'T THE SEVENTIES. This has been his point from the get-go. Li Fri, 3 Aug 2012 14:17:35 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#101 When Krugman's and his cohorts predictions are wrong (wrong about the effects of the stimulus, wrong about predicting inflation, completely mystified by stagflation), it doesn't discredit them, but because inflation has not happened now, despite the Fed pa Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:42:57 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#100 What does he mean? 
Who cares? Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:18:52 GMT novy: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#99 Sort of like Milton Friedman saying that he would support any tax cut for any reason or for no reason. When your side says crazy stuff, though, you can be counted on to cheer. Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:16:47 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#98 Misleading because you disagree with its conclusions? Yeah, I thought so. No one should disturb your slumber with mere facts.
Keynesianism may not be perfect, but your favoured austerity would be much worse, as Britain has been trying to prove for two y Thu, 2 Aug 2012 01:14:02 GMT thefadd: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#97 How does that changing anything? Wed, 1 Aug 2012 23:42:10 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#96 Ted Nugent doesn't like you:
<blockquote>Regrettably, there are way too many intellectually stunted Americans who support this gluttonous and irresponsible spending curse. They are called socialists. Socialists believe in Keynesian economics, which supp Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:28:00 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#95 I will take the deafening silence from the right as a concession of their model's total failure. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://notthetreasuryview.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/which-macro-economists-are-worth.html">As Jonathan Portes says</a>:
"My answer t Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:02:19 GMT indecentspeech: Re: A Miracle!!!!! http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#94 <blockquote>The final third, $275B dollars  was tax changes.  That is right, it wasn't spending at all and it was what Republicans insisted on in order to get it passed.  It did increase the deficit.  About half the tax breaks went to f Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:15:59 GMT MinusOne: Re: A Miracle!!!!! http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#93 Spending a trillion dollars didn't cause joblessness to go up?  Wow.  Who would have thought that?   
I'm a bit late to the show here, sorry.
There is nothing like a complete distortion to make your argument.  The stimulus Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:08:45 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#92 Just to be clear, you are stating that per Chicago/Supply-side dogma, massive monetary growth should not cause inflation and yet should cause interest rates to drop to historic lows?
Careful. You may be straying into thought-crime territory. Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:05:11 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#91 You might think Krugman's failures to predict inflation might provoke some reflection on his part. He's misrepresenting those he disagrees with, as usual. Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:24:33 GMT Haggis: It's the Abe Vigoda Syndrome http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#90 Every year he's on everyone's Dead Pool list.  Sooner or later ... Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:24:00 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#89 Investors have been a bit slow on the uptake it seems. Lack confidence in the data, etc. Sun, 29 Jul 2012 15:14:31 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#88 Dec 21 2012. Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:49:18 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#87 Been saying that for what, four years now?
But....Any day now... 
 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:40:27 GMT thefadd: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#86 I would never accuse you of being in an argument. Sun, 29 Jul 2012 12:08:45 GMT thefadd: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#85 The economy still has inflation written all over it. Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:53:51 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#84 I didn't mean to come across as I did. I was trying to say what you ended up saying in your second paragraph. Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:56:50 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#83 "Inefficient" should read "insufficient" Sat, 28 Jul 2012 14:32:37 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#82 It sounds as though Krugman didn't carefully read the essay he was criticizing:<blockquote><tt>Mulligan tries to refute people like, well, me, who say that the zero lower bound makes the case for fiscal policy.</tt></blockquote>(Mulligan didn't mention fis Sat, 28 Jul 2012 11:50:52 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#81 Many economist said it was inefficient immediately. You know it, I know it, color it as a hedge if you like but it is demonstrably true.
What say you regarding the quote?: 
"You might think that the failure of high inflation to materialize, plus r Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:46:40 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#80 Austan Goolsbee <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oral-history/financial-crisis/tags/size-of-the-stimulus/">recounts</a>:<blockquote>Through the fall, the biggest number that anybody had been talking about was $175 billion. An Fri, 27 Jul 2012 18:16:07 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#79 I thought you were saying that. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 17:07:52 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#78 Are you saying that no politician has ever proposed cutting spending and lowering taxes? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 17:01:46 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#77 You mean no politician has proposed one? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:57:46 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#76 Haven't seen a scenario where did it work. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:53:25 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#75  <blockquote>"The basic issue is that the U.S. is on an <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/business/economy/sure-cure-for-debt-problems-is-economic-growth.html?pagewanted=all">unsustainable fiscal track</a>," says Dean Maki, the Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:44:29 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#74 Why do you believe it is not possible? 
 Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:43:28 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#73 Not possible. You can reduce deficit through economic growth, not while. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:41:28 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#72 What if you aim to reduce the deficit while growing the economy? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:30:02 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#71 If your aim is deficit reduction, yes. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:55:30 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#70 So raise taxes right across the board, then? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:50:08 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#69 If your aim is deficit reduction. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:18:09 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#68 You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm on your side here, but I'm specifically talking about deficit/debt reduction. 
I do believe that during times of recession, economic policy should be fiscal and monetary expansion IE lower taxes, increase government Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:17:13 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#67 Do you think raising taxes right now is a good idea? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:11:19 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#66 Backers of the stimulus policy stated immediately and often that the stimulus policies were too insignificant to have much effect.
On the other side, well, they've been crushingly wrong about everything. Their models have failed so spectacularly that th Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:10:13 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#65 Austerity during times of recession doesn't require "political courage" so much as it requires ideological commitment to mistaken economic policy. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:09:27 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#64 Grover Norquist made you sign the pledge too? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:24:23 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#63 Or we could cut spending and leave taxes alone. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:19:13 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#62 If it's about deficit reduction then people know what needs to be done, but they don't have the political courage to do it. You need to cut spending and raise taxes, but should happen during periods of economic expansion but nobody ever does it then Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:15:53 GMT novy: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#61 He doesn't really communicate with you, either. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:43:29 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading at all? http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#60 It's an expression of mirth. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:39:53 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#59 What argument do you think I was having? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:39:29 GMT thefadd: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#58 I meant you had him all the way but let him win the argument in the end. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 03:34:31 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#57 I know what contractionary fiscal policy is. You apparently do not, at least judging from your choice of linked webpage. Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:14:31 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#56 "Contractionary" can also refer to <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/awb_nav.pl?s=wpd&c=dsp&k=contractionary+fiscal+policy">fiscal policy</a>. Normally, we see such policies during times of economic expansion, when inflation th Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:55:47 GMT pO157: Re:ading at all? http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#55 What do you mean by that? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:48:58 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#54 WTF are you talking about? Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:30:55 GMT thefadd: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#53 I think it's pretty clear to everybody that on this topic at least both political "sides" have no fucking clue what they're doing and are almost certainly both wrong. Neither austerity nor stimulus has wholly succeeded or failed. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:20:41 GMT thefadd: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#52 you gave up too soon Thu, 26 Jul 2012 23:17:15 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#51 No, I misread the comment.
Contractionary usually refers to monetary policy. How does austerity quality as contractionary? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:49:07 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#50 Did you mean "contractionary" to begin with or did you mean contradictory? Trying to seamlessly recover from your initial mistake? Why should I help you?
Oh, all right. If you tell me what contractionary means, I'll tell you how austerity qualifies as c Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:37:40 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#49 How is austerity contractionary? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 19:00:29 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#48 Austerity. Remember? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:53:47 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#47 What contractionary policy do you believe you see here? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:32:56 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#46 Contractionary was his word, based on contraction, not contradiction or contradictory. (And then you tell ME to read more carefully.) 
Now if you meant contraction rather than contradiction (as in "What contraction do you believe you see?" Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:48:06 GMT indecentspeech: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#45 I appreciate the acknowledgement. At least someone thought the same
(BTW, this is improper. I had to create a new username because it won't allow me to post with "improper" anymore, not sure why.) Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:32:12 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#44 What contradiction do you believe you see? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:54:36 GMT T Slothrop: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#43 I tried to rate your comment "milf-y" but alas the unseen hand of Scoop wouldn't allow it. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:43:52 GMT Otto Maddox: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#42 Some day, perhaps ten years from now, it will finally dawn on conservatives that contractionary policies are, indeed contractionary. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:16:50 GMT novy: Re: Ah, Sweet Victory http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#41 ... Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:47:33 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#40 None of my comments said, or suggested, that austerity raised employment. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:43:07 GMT novy: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#39 More urban prostitutes? Thu, 26 Jul 2012 02:02:34 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#38 <blockquote>...you should stop pretending those articles say austerity has worked to increase employment...</blockquote>Ho ho! Thu, 26 Jul 2012 01:07:39 GMT novy: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#37 And you should stop pretending those articles say austerity has worked to increase employment (to current American levels). But you won't. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:58:42 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#36 You should read the articles you linked to. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:56:55 GMT novy: Re:ading more than you bother to http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#35 Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh, NLF ... nah, they already won.
Or maybe you've been trying to summon urban prostitutes. Good luck with that. Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:48:29 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading at all? http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#34 <blockquote>...what all of those articles were reporting, which was that austerity hasn't been working as advertised.</blockquote>
Ho ho! Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:45:30 GMT novy: Re:ading past the headline http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#33 I provided multiple links. I don't always recognise all of them. However, cherry-picking quotes doesn't change what all of those articles were reporting, which was that austerity hasn't been working as advertised. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:48:14 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re:ading past the headline http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#32 Ho ho! Wed, 25 Jul 2012 23:03:08 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#31 You quoted from something, but you didn't actually link to it. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:48:01 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#30 What link? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:17:51 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#29 Actually, I was just making fun of Zyx's link. I don't completely believe Chinese economic statistics, but I do tend to believe those emanating from official accountants in America and Britain. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:06:51 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#28 <blockquote>If your window makers would otherwise forget how to make windows, running around breaking windows is a net public good, because otherwise you end up losing all the windows they would have made later</blockquote>If. But if we need window Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:47:05 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#27 Because government spending money on anything expands aggregate demand, and this expanded aggregate demand will allocate proportionally to exactly where it is needed. It will not cause any sort of misallocations of resources, either directly through the sp Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:10:25 GMT Shy Elf: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#26 I thought you liked whistling robots and spa showers.  Whatever would you do if people forgot how to make them? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:07:57 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#25 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/solyndra-s-733-million-plant-had-whistling-robots-spa-showers.html">Whistling robots, spa showers.</a> Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:02:33 GMT Shy Elf: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#24 Yes, along with everywhere else. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:01:17 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#23 At least employment as a lagging indicator is defensible from a theoretical standpoint. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:59:10 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#22 According to you they spend it in the precise areas where it's needed to prevent labor skill erosion. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:58:36 GMT Shy Elf: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#21 What do the people receiving the money spent on "anything at all" spend it on? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:55:08 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#20 The notion government spending on "anything at all" prevents labor force skills in general from deteriorating is comical. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:52:40 GMT Shy Elf: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#19 If you were talking about <a rel="nofollow" href="http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lying-libor-nothing-compared-chinas-061447499.html">China</a>, you'd have a good point. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:49:33 GMT Jackkeefe: Re: A Miracle!!!!! http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#18 i92 percent agreed that the stimulus succeeded in reducing the jobless rate
Spending a trillion dollars didn't cause joblessness to go up?  Wow.  Who would have thought that?  Every conservative economist I read predicted that spen Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:40:08 GMT Shy Elf: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#17 If you're going to link DeLong on this topic, link the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/01/hysteresis-and-the-american-unemployment-problem.html">relevant page</a>.  The point is that if you allow insufficient aggregate deman Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:38:09 GMT Shy Elf: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#16 I don't know have an amount, but looser credit has to help some.
Also, NSA number is only 166K, with the seasonal adjustment for Christmas out of whack in recent years.  Also, the jump includes the Olympics jobs which are short term.  Also, em Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:26:05 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#15 If Food Stamps have that sort of multiplier, just think of what the multiplier must be on leaving piles of money out to be stolen.
At times Keynesian get angry if you accuse them of believing government hiring people to dig holes then fill them up again Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:15:57 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#14 Do you agree that the benefits outweighed the costs? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:11:32 GMT improper: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#13 Oh and on the second question I'm getting 46% agree it worked, and 60% agree based on responses weighted by each expert's confidence. Those are far greater than 12% disagree and 14% disagree. (not counting uncertain and no opinion). Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:00:04 GMT improper: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#12 Katherine Baicker and Cecilia Rouse are pretty hot for being economists. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:57:23 GMT zyxwvutsr: begging the question http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#11 The US federal government says $1.00 in Food Stamp spending results in $1.79 added to GDP. This firm conclusion was issued in spite of <a rel="nofollow" href="https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ers.usda.gov%2Fmedia%2F134117%2Ferr103_1_.pdf Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:55:18 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#10 That's a misleading article, look at the actual IGM survey results.
The economy is not where the Keynesian models used by Obama administration economists predicted it would be. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:54:19 GMT improper: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#9 Economists think otherwise:
<blockquote>Let's start with Obama's stimulus. The standard Republican talking point is that it failed, meaning it didn't reduce unemployment. Yet in a survey of leading economists conducted by the University of Chicago's Boo Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:43:12 GMT Ephraim Gadsby: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#8 Because obviously the only thing having any bearing on the UK economy at the moment is government spending.
There's no evidence the stimulus in the United States was effective, which isn't surprising, since there is no evidence for the multiplier rates Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:38:26 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#7 How much has been loaned thus far? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:25:13 GMT Shy Elf: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#6 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9154021/Credit-easing-Small-businesses-to-get-20bn-of-guaranteed-cheap-loans.html">These</a> loan guarantees. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:04:49 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#5 What loan guarantees? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:33:12 GMT Shy Elf: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#4 We can think of no reason
Cheap credit with no-strings loan guarantees and overoptimistic economic forecasts? Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:13:12 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#3 "Unemployment has eased to" 8.2% in America. Great job, Barack! Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:12:27 GMT novy: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#2 British GDP hasn't really dropped for three straight quarters. They've been LYING to us! You can only trust economic statistics if they have been prepared by people you know agree with you on economic issues. Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:10:25 GMT zyxwvutsr: Re: British GDP Drops 0.7% in 3rd Q of Recession http://www.treesandthings.com/story/2012/7/25/15508/4216#1 <blockquote><tt>The figures are at odds with other economic indicators. Unemployment has eased to 8.1 percent in the last report, with 250,000 private sector jobs added in the three months through April. Forward-looking surveys of business sentiment have b Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:05:37 GMT Search Trees And Things string http://www.treesandthings.com/search/