Politics

...and I thought I had rights so why don't you need a warrant for that?

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:11:17 AM EST. RSS.

On Sept. 20, the House passed (by voice vote) HR 5295 (pdf), or the The Student Teacher Safety Act of 2006 mandating that school districts spell out policies to enable searches (pat-downs, strip, etc) of students by school staff without warrants or, theoretically, parental notification.  

The legislation's sponsor, Rep. Davis (R-KY) states that the bill is nessecary because teachers "want to search the book bags, and the policies are not clear." The bill is designed to allow administrators to set their own policies, and theoretically could be used to allow staff to search students, or even large groups, with little to no evidence on baseless pretexts while granting them full immunity against legal action brought by the student or family. Previously the Supreme Court  held that schools do not need warrants only as long as there is a great deal of reasonable belief that a search will reveal illegal contraband/dangerous items.

This bill has angered certain groups including: Drug Policy Alliance, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, the ACLU, the American Federation of Teachers, the National Parent Teacher Association, the American Association of School Administrators, and the National School Boards Association.

Critics fear this law could be used as pretext by administrators to fuel another incident similar to the one at Goose Creek where large students were forced to the ground by SWAT teams and handcuffed while forcibly searched for contraband. This comes at a time when less newsworthy items such as these where students are forced to submit to metal detectors and personal searches as they enter school are becoming more common.

Do school administrators have a right to conduct warrantless searches of students? What grounds should they need to do so? What recourse, if any, should students and the public have?

edited by Port1080
edited by Ace

Tags: schools, teachers, 4th amendment, searches, written by pO157 (all tags)

This story: 16 comments (5 from subqueue)
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3

Same old....

Dvandom.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 12:39:57 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Back in the 80s, when I was in high school, warrantless locker searches were implemented as part of the War On Drugs.  It was pointed out at the time that minors don't have the full suite of rights that adults do, and that schools act in loco parentis while students are on school grounds.  Ergo, schools have as much right to search your locker as your parents do to search your closet.

Of course, the argument gets a bit weak for 18 year old students, but ISTR there were other arguments involved as well (such as "the school owns the locker and lets you use it, it's not actually yours").

In short, twenty years ago students didn't have the right to demand a warrant before being searched, and nothing has changed to make me think they'd get that right now.  If anything, it's gotten less likely.

This is not a signature.

1

School Zones == Airports

wetkarma.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:32:42 AM EST

none

We have free speech zones, passenger control areas..might as well change the schools to be rights-limited. I have no objection since A) I have no kids and B) I blame the parents of kids for supporting this.

Still the thought occurs to me -- why just the kids? Why don't we search the handbags of staff in addition to the students bookbags? Surely if its good enough for Brittany its good enough for Mrs. Hartford the physics teacher.  Why the presumption that kids are the only ones carrying drugs? I say search the math teacher with a hangover and 2 tylenols in his wallet. Suspend the coach with a swiss army knife in his gym bag.

If its student AND teacher safety, shouldn't we be checking the teachers too?

My proposal is this: For every infringement on student rights that are legislated because the student happens to be in a school, the same infringement should be applicable to  the adults entering the school as well.

Yup..definetly time to bail this country.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

4

^ 1

Re: School Zones == Airports

rombuu.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 01:02:11 PM EST

2.00

Why don't we search the handbags of staff in addition to the students bookbags?

Well, Here is a list of school shootings over the past 10 years, and I don't see any cases where a staff member shot anyone.  Why bother worrying about a non-existent event?

6

^ 4

Re: School Zones == Airports

wetkarma.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 02:20:24 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Its not often I disagree with rombuu, but do a google search for "teacher arrested drugs" and it returns 5 million hits. If you read the bill, its not portraying itself as a measure to find weapons, its supposed to find drugs.

So I ask you, why not search the teachers?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

2

^ 1

Re: School Zones == Airports

gerrymander.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 11:04:01 AM EST

none

I'm a long way from bailing, but this definitely strikes me as an extremely poor idea. Even airport security has some oversight and guidance to prevent abuses. This school bill, in contrast, seems designed to maximize them.

8

^ 2

Re: School Zones == Airports

tomc.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 02:38:12 PM EST

none

Well, Mark Foley supports this legislation, so it's gotta have something going for it.

5

Re: ...and I thought I had rights so why don't you

Coelacanth.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 02:13:54 PM EST

none

As Thalia noted in the subQ, I'm wondering why teacher, adminstrator, and school board groups all oppose it.  It's probably not a great bill.

Aside from that, and aside from the legal issues, it seems like a questionable idea educationally (if anyone cares any more).  What values does it teach the kids?  Fear authority?  Safety always comes before liberty?

If the issue were really weapons, then maybe we're stuck with metal detectors.  But random searches is another level of intrusion, and seems remarkably ineffective besides.

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^ 5

Re: ...and I thought I had rights so why don't you

permazorch.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 02:37:26 PM EST

none

What values does it teach the kids?  Fear authority?  Safety always comes before liberty?
...
But random searches is another level of intrusion, and seems remarkably ineffective besides.

It effectively teaches kids to expect escalating levels of intrusion. Why should they expect basic rights which aren't available for them after school (the little terrorists)?

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

10

^ 5

Re: ...and I thought I had rights so why don't you

dzetetes.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 04:44:56 PM EST

none

What values does it teach the kids?  Fear authority?  Safety always comes before liberty?

Not coincidentally, the same values that the government wishes to inculcate in the population as a whole.  

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

11

^ 10

Re: ...and I thought I had rights so why don't you

marduk.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:08:22 PM EST

none

If you can't see the fnords they can't hurt you.

tnt needs to track moderation. stats page!

12

^ 11

fnord

permazorch.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 11:13:21 PM EST

none

fnord

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

9

A warrant? Hah.

nmiguy.

Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 03:15:59 PM EST

none

When my sister was in high school, she was in teh girls bathroom with some other girls who were smoking cigarettes.  A teacher comes into the restroom and decalres that she smells marijuana.  So she takes all the grils to the principals office for a strip search.  Without a warrant.  No drugs were found.  My parents thought about suing the school, but ultimately they did not do so.  My sister transferred out to another school.  I think my parents and my sister should have sued the school.    Warrantless strip searches are a violation of privacy rights.  They could happen at any time, and in this case there were no drugs.  

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