But women who give birth also suffer from those ailments, and in larger percentages.  Post partum depression is a known problem.  

Thalia

(weird.  I thought I had replied to this yesterday...)

I know a bit about post partum, having experienced it 2nd hand.

Is it true that percentage-wise more women suffer from post partum after giving birth than women suffering from depression after having an abortion?

And if so, (forgive my ignorance here), isn't post partum a relatively short term ailment, while depression after having an abortion usually has longer term effects?

At least half of new mothers get the baby blues, a mild form of depression that begins a few days or a week after delivery and usually lasts no more than two weeks. True postpartum depression can last from two weeks to a year. It is less common, affecting 10 to 20 percent of new mothers.

Compare that to "A major longitudinal study by the American Psychological Associated was unable to detect any evidence of PAS. (post abortion syndrome)"      The American Psychological Association conducted an 8 year study involving almost 5,295 women, starting in 1979. The women were interviewed each year until 1987. The researchers found that the best predictor of of the women's well-being during the study was their well-being at the start of the study. Whether they had had an abortion or not during the interval covered by the study did not seem to affect their mental health.

I think this "post abortion syndrome" or "depression" is imaginary.  I know a number of women who have had abortions, and I don't know any who suffered from depression afterward.  I do know two women who had post-birth depression.  I was lucky not to suffer from either.

Thalia

Interesting.  Thanks, Thalia.

I know two women who suffered from serious depression after having an abortion.

I know one woman who has had (last time I saw here, which was over 20 years ago) 4 abortions, and didn't seem affected.  But the general consensus amongst her friends was that she was just wacked out to begin with.

I googled a bit and found the APA reference almost everywhere, but to an extent the jury still seems to be out, mainly because post-partum is an immediate reaction, whereas post-abortion sometimes doesn't kick in for 5 to 10 years, and many influences during that time could be the cause, rather than the abortion itself.

Come on now, blaming something that happened 5-10 years before for a depression?  I'm not buying it.  Have you ever heard of such a depression trigger?  Except in cases of suppressed memory, I cannot imagine being fine with something for 5-10 YEARS and then suddenly getting depressed because of it.

I expect what happens is that when bad shit happens (a divorce, infertility, something else) that triggers depression, the woman will blame the abortion, instead of the current real factors.  

Thalia

Hi Thalia!

I'm not defending it, just telling you what I'm reading.

The quote "very dire" was a direct quote from Ellie Smeal.  The topic is abortion, thus it shouldn't have come as a shock to you that this is what the write up is about.  I find it telling that you choose the word "hysterical" to describe my headline as the word was sort of invented by medical doctors to describe an overwhelming and irrational fear they felt women experienced due to a disorder of sorts in their reproductive equipment.  What, in the sweet name of all that's holy are you trying to say here, nmiguy?  Are you saying that women ought to just shut up and accept the fact that people (who don't occupy that middle ground you so prize) are dedicated to eradicate their access to abortions.  But not only abortions, because any interference with the god-given right to plant the seed and spit out another generation is abhorrent in the face of the almighty, they want to eradicate their access to any birth control.  If you oppose abortion because you believe that God finds it offensive or because it's a moral offense, please use that line of reasoning.  But I am searching and failing to find an argument for not fighting the retrenchment in women's rights in terms of "just shut up and be quiet, we will take care of you in the end."

So, if the women will just stay calm and not pay attention while certain of their rights (that many people, men and women, have fought and sacrificed to realize) are eroded and shat upon and discarded, everything will be all right?  I know you like to say you use your postings to think your way through issues such as this, but it seems like you never started thinking before you started posting.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Are you saying that women ought to just shut up and accept the fact that people (who don't occupy that middle ground you so prize) are dedicated to eradicate their access to abortions.
. . . .
you never started thinking before you started posting.

Gosh, ad hominem AND hyperbole in the same post!

2 points!!!

If you oppose abortion because you believe that God finds it offensive or because it's a moral offense, please use that line of reasoning.

Well, he did sneak this in:

It is important, but no more "very dire" for women than it is for fetuses striving to live.

True enough.  I guess in the midst of all that patronizing "don't worry your dear little heads" mumbo jumbo I missed that piece of nonsense.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Bob I am not saying that at all.  

I am saying that it isn't the end of the world.  I am saying that pro-choice advocates are showing real fear that their position is challenged.  They are confident they are in the right here, they can fight teh abortion battle on its merits, no need for rhetoric that will scare people (like Thalia below has expressed) that losing a battle in the abortion issue will lead to losses for women's rights across the board.

The abortion debate has 2 sides, and each side will have its victories.  My feeling is it will go back and forth indefinitely over time, and it is not a "dire time for women".  It is one issue.  I say to pro-choice advocates, fight your battle honorably.  To Pro-life advocates, I say quit the dirty fighting.  All this "end of the world" rhetoric is not noble.  If you feel your position is entirely correct morally, then there is no need for exaggeration, fear mongering and dirty fighting.  

It is okay if that doesn't make sense to you or anyone else.  It is how I feel.  But I don't have a particular stake in the abortion issue.  My church is against abortion, but some women I love have had abortions and I would not pass any judgement.  Whatever happens on the issue, I am at least open to it.  If I were forced to make a choice on the issue, I probably stand on the "pro-choice" side but looking for ways to keep it legal, safe and rare.

I respectfully ask you to give me the short and clear version of what you're trying to say in this post, especially as it relates to my reply -- unless, of course, you were purposely trying to discourage a response with such a rambling and incoherent discourse.

Short form:  Be glad you're not in Iraq or Afghanistan, where it's really dire for women.  Merely losing the right to abortions (and to contraception, which has been painted as the next target of these folks) isn't that bad.  

And while I agree in principle, I do believe that an attack on abortion is only the first step in making sure that women go back to their subservient roles, advocated by  most of these nutballs.

Thalia

I respectfully disagree with using hyperbolic rhetoric on an issue as heated as abortion.  This goes for both sides in the debate.

That's the short version.  There can be no reasoned debate on the issue without respect and openness to each others' arguments.  

(BTW, I would be fine if the laws on abortion do not change at all.  But it is not my fight.  I can't ally myself with the extremests on either side of the debate, being on the outside, I am repulsed by actions of many pro-life and pro-choice movements.)