Etcetera

The Baddest Dudes Own The Baddest Dogs.

MayorBob.

Posted to Etcetera on Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 02:11:33 AM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

They say you can often tell something about a dog owner by looking at the type of dog they own.  Now, there's some scientific confirmation to that if you believe a group of researchers from the University of Cincinnati and the Cincinnati branch of the SPCA, as they've just issued a study which reported that, if you see a menacing and aggressive dog, it's likely owned by a menacing and aggressive person.

The researchers took a look at 355 dogs and their owners.  They identified some breeds (e.g., pit bulls, Rottweilers, and Akitas) as "high-risk" for their documented records of attacks on humans and others (e.g., beagles, spaniels and terriers) as "low-risk."  Then they made a correlation between the breed of dog and the human owners' record of misbehavior.  The study (PDF), published in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, reported a correlation between the badness of canine breed to antisocial behavior by human owner.

The owners of the high-risk dogs were seven times more likely to be convicted of an aggressive crime than an owner of one of the low-risk breeds.  They were also eight times more likely to have a drug-related conviction on their records and twice as likely to engage in spousal abuse.  The study found that every owner of a high-risk breed had a criminal conviction or traffic offense on their records, compared to only 27 percent of the owners of the low-risk breeds.  The study noted "for some persons, owning a dog that has a reputation for aggression is considered a highly desirable feature."  But it also concluded that perhaps the high-risk breeds weren't born that way as "ownership of a high-risk cited dog may be a marker of endangerment for the animal."

Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Frazer University, thinks it's almost a given that someone engaged in drug trafficking might want an aggressive dog.  He also finds it natural that an owner will buy a dog "that match an image of themselves as aggressive and territorial."  An official of the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies scoffs at the notion of drawing any conclusions about "owners based on their canine companions."  The key to having a nicely-behaved, non-aggressive dog rather than a menacing, aggressive dog is proper training and socialization.  This is an opinion shared by a number of other persons who reacted with shock and dismay at the news report and the findings of the study.  One professional dog trainer who owns both a pit bull and a Rottweiler said the study is "one more thing for people to hate these dogs, and to hate the people that own these dogs."  Aussie readers also had a few thoughts on the matter.      

edited by 1fastdog

Tags: dogs, crime, academic studies, written by MayorBob (all tags)

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1

Re: The Baddest Dudes Own The Baddest Dogs.

pO157.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 06:36:38 AM EST

4.00 (informative)

I'm suprised folks haven't made this connection earlier. I've had almost nothing but good experiences with other dog owners in my life; but since moving to the city I've had at least two encounters of the moronic kind.

The first was a neighbor a few houses down who wouldn't think anything of it to let her extremely large dog out of the house, unleashed and unattended, at several times during the day to wandered around and defecate on others' lawns (it almost seemed like the dog was trained to go on everybodys' but hers), which of course, to her would be out of sight and out of mind. What was great about this is one of the prime times she would let said dog out would be in the morning when the neighborhood kids would roam the area to find their buses, and those of us with jobs would head out.

After a few weeks about this, I began to try to chase the dog off our lawn when I saw it. To no avail, apparently it thought the block was its territory. My neighbor talked to her. I attempted to have a discussion with said person after the 2nd or 3rd time her dog chased ours while on OUR own property. She refused to come to the door. After the 4th or 5th time this happened I waited on the sidewalk outside her house for her to come to the door to let her little bundle of joy in. Her response to apparently let me know she was going to do something about it? She went and hit the dog and yelled at it; because obviously a dog can make that connection and understand what was going on. Good people.

Another fun experience I've had is some dude who lives over a block away. He's apparently one of those "Well, I know there is a leash law, but it doesn't apply to me because I can control my dogs so well" kind of types (which I guess I don't actually have a problem with much as long as it is true). Except he really can't seem to actually control them. He'll get home from work or wherever and he'll open the door to his truck and apparently expects his pets to sit patiently beside him on the curb while he unloads the thing, and then calmly cross the street and go inside or something.

It doesn't seem to work like that. His pets seem to want to run hither and tither in all directions.  One time I was out in the front yard at night with our dog , he gets home, and his dogs run from over a block away to come straight toward us for some reason. I see them coming, so I pull our (small) dog in to the back yard. The followed us down our driveway and into our back yard, growling. Mr. Responsible Pet Owner apparently sees this, because he started waddling down the road, completely unconcerned occasionally yelling things like "Hey there, fluffy-boo! Come here girl!"

Now, we live in a state where deadly force against loose dogs is authorized in any case where they even "worry" a domesticated animal (such as anothers' pet) or advance aggressively toward a human on land the animal has no legal right to be on (such as private property). If I carried mace or something it would have been used at this point. Repeatedly.

I tried having a discussion about how possibly "fluffy-boo" and "Creampuff" should be kept on a leash, but he simply retrieved the dogs from our backyard and walked away without even acknowledging my presence or even appologizing.

Now, this wouldn't have been such a big deal except for the fact that the same thing happened a second time a week later. This time when I suggested he obey the leash law so it may be easier to at least keep his pets at least on the same city block as his house he got all huffed up and pretty much exploded "NO way I'm putting a leash on my dogs! The yard isn't big enough." Whatever that meant.

95% of the folks who own pets are responsible, take time to socialize them while they are still young, train them to bark only when nessecary, etc. Then you have the 5% who have problems and the problem is in most cities the SPCA police are only used as revenue enhancement (issuing dog tags, etc) and won't enforce pet laws because they have their hands full investigating cruelty complaints.

7

^ 1

Re: The Baddest Dudes Own The Baddest Dogs.

keta.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:30:29 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny)

Hell is other people's pets.
Jean-Paul Barkre

2

^ 1

Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

GregAce.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 08:46:30 AM EST

4.00 (informative, informative)

95% of the folks who own pets are responsible ...

I disagree.  In my experience it's much closer to 50-50, and if we limit the discussion to dog owners specifically I'd say that good ones are lower than 50%.  I'm not just talking about people who won't obey leash laws, actively mistreat their pet, or raise aggressive animals.  That's one kind of responsibility, but the other kind is to the animal itself.  I see many many dog owners who simply don't understand dogs and (a) either unintentionally mistreat them by not being sensitive to the real needs of a canine - for affection, consistent rules, more elbow room and freedom to move than they get going from apartment to car to "minimal walk necessary for business", etc.; or (b) want to treat them as if they were human children with human brains and psyches.  As a result, I see a LOT of basically nice but neurotic dogs.

As for cats, mine have always been indoor-outdoor animals.  Permanently cooping them up inside a house or apartment isn't any healthier for cats than it is for dogs.  And don't get me started on declawing....

I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts. -- Mark Twain

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^ 2

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

port1080.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 09:20:56 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Permanently cooping them up inside a house or apartment isn't any healthier for cats


This is a more complex issue than you make it out to be.  I've been on both sides of the fence - growing up, all our cats were indoor / outdoor, but I currently live in an apartment and I don't have the luxury of letting my cat run free.  The cats we had growing up were constantly getting injured from fighting other cats, getting ticks, a few got hit by cars, and so on.  They may have been more mentally happy, but they were definitely less physically healthy.  Other than some hairballs, my current cat hasn't had any health problems since I got her.  She sometimes seems a bit stir crazy, but we have a lot of toys for her and she gets her jollies chasing and killing the occasional bug.  I agree that there's a tradeoff, but I think the proven increased average lifespan that indoor cats have isn't something you can easily ignore.

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Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

WMK.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 10:24:15 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

I think it is fair to say that people who are assholes have dogs who are assholes.

There are of course exceptions where a person who is a blue ribbon asshole to other people has a well trained, non-menacing, non-destructive pet and there are sweet nice people who are haplessly ignorant about training thier pet and as a result the thing is a terror in everyones eyes but the owners, but IMO these are exceptions.

If someone trains thier pet (deliberately or through whatever style of raising thier dog came naturally to them) to be menacing and aggressive and exposes the neighborhood/rest of the world to this creature then that  person is an ASSHOLE of the deepest dye.  If they select a breed that is renown for its physical power with a storied past of maulings, multilations, and violence and the animal is SURPRISE-SURPRISE a threat to anyone in its presence then that person has a permanent 'FUCK YOU, I'LL HURT YOU!' being loudly announced at all times.  An animal like that should not be allowed to come into contact with other people where it can 'accidentally' attack someone yet the news is full of stories from all regions of the country where people are attacked.  Only an ASSHOLE allows this sort of thing to happen and I think it is entirely fair to describe it that way.

I have friends who are such intense 'Dog People' that they became professional dog trainers after a few years of pursuing it as a hobby.  I like my friends and I like some of thier Dogs but even they can have a dog who is just a bitey shithead (it was a shelter rescue dog when she got it so she didn't raise it from a puppy - whatever habits it aquired early never 'deprogrammed') that is unpleasant to be around, or maybe that is just how Chows are.  Sometimes the Dog is just bad all the way down in its doggie soul and can't be reached even with unlimited love and trying (just like some people), the good intentions of the owner don't count for much when it bites you.

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

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^ 6

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

Steve Urkel.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 12:57:23 AM EST

none

I taught my dog Kung-Fu, but he only uses it in self defense.

11

^ 9

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

Lou.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 01:20:29 PM EST

none

I taught my dog Kung-Fu, but he only uses it in self defense.

Yeah, but I bet it still poops on the rug.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

10

^ 6

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

socky.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 12:40:18 PM EST

none

just had to say, thank you for "bitey shithead". Maybe you and yours say this a lot but it was new to me.

3

^ 2

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

pO157.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 09:16:28 AM EST

none

Amen.

I feel guilty enough as is for leaving my pet home alone for the 8 or so hours I am at work. However, she has enough toys and whatnot that she seems to get along well enough. Of course, her getting along well enough may also be due to the fact that I take her for walks a minimum of once, but usually 3 times a day and try as hard as I can to socialize her to as many different types of people and situations as possible.

Owning a dog or a cat is a commitment, one that lasts for a significant portion of your life. It's taking a new family member in to your home for 15 or 20 years. Too many folks make the commitment half-heartedly and I think that is a factor as to why the shelters are full all the time.

5

^ 3

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

MayorBob.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 09:24:26 AM EST

4.00

I have a feeling the main reason the shelters always seem to have a never ending supply of animals is failure to neuter your house pets.  I'm amazed at the number of people who claim seriously that neutering an animal you only wish to keep as a housepet and a companion is cruel.  It's not cruel, it's far kinder to control the pet population than flip the green switch on propagating the puppy population.  As P0147 posted, owning a pet is not a pasttime or something you do as a lark; it's a total commitment between you and your pet(s) and, at times, hard work.  But, the hard work is worth it when you have a well-behaved, even-tempered pet on your hands and not an incipient puppy mill.

 

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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^ 5

Re: Responsible pet owners - a rare breed

paperwings.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:29:20 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

It's not cruel, it's far kinder to control the pet population than flip the green switch on propagating the puppy population.

You are absolutely right.  Not only is it not cruel, it actually makes for happier pets.  If you have ever had a female cat go into heat, you can see how uncomfortable life is for her.  Same for male animals... if they don't have a mate, you will be surprised to wake up one morning and have no idea where Fido went.  And if Fido was lucky enough to find a mate, he may not have been lucky enough to make it home without being run over by a van.... or to even find his way back.  I am happy to have grown up the child of a veterinarian.  My dad used to spay and neuter strays in his spare time.  Some say cruel... I say a service to the public at large.

13

That was painfully obvious

maml.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 06:04:11 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

Agressive people have agressive dogs, this is news?  

I had this neighbor with a Rottweiler.  It was huge.  It was a lamb, absolutely terrified of strangers and always hiding behind the neighbor's other dog, which must have been a third it's size.  When those dogs played together, the Rottie would take the small dogs entire head in it's mouth and gently rock it back of forth.  My neighbor was a real sweetheart too.  

My aunt got a Doberman when her husband moved out.  My aunt is a lamb.  The Doberman wet itself when the doorbell rang.

Every dog I've ever had trouble with had owners I thought should be in jail.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

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^ 13

Yeah, The Saying Goes

uncarved block.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 at 10:18:28 AM EST

none

"no shit, Sherlock"-- and it's appropriate, as Holmes is one of the earliest literary character (that I know) to remark that dogs reflect their owners. "Have you ever seen a happy dog in a miserable family?" is the quote, IIRC. That said, I can't get too upset that this study was done. Lots of things are supposed to be obvious, yet when studied closely turn out to be only partly true, or even wrong. For example, "practice makes perfect" is only true if said practice is followed by instruction, as otherwise bad habits will only get further ingrained, whether into a tennis stroke or a cyclist's technique. (Pro golfers will film themselves when they're hitting the ball well, to have a reference later to see what to fix.) Hopefully this will also put to rest notions of "dangerous breeds", but somehow I'm pessimistic that that meme will die very quickly.
   

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

14

CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION

3fingerspointback.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 06:54:25 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

You're all ignoring the possibility that it is the dogs that are driving people to do these heinous acts.  I know that I feel the urge to smash something whenever I'm around one of those yippy little toy-accessory-thingies.

(is 3fingerspointback)

15

^ 14

Re: CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION

ms sue.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 09:14:55 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

I know that I feel the urge to smash something whenever I'm around one of those yippy little toy-accessory-thingies.

Heh. Then I sure as hell would hate to think what urges you have when around one of those barrel-chested "Oh, he's really a sweet family dog" bred-to-maul 909er pit bull.

8

I am such a wimp.

nmiguy.

Tue Nov 21, 2006 at 03:44:48 PM EST

none

I don't have a big tough dog, like a Rot or Pitbull.  

No, I have an eensy little chinchilla named Speedy.

Here's a pic.

Thank goodness he is totally recovered from his trauma.  

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^ 8

Re: I am such a wimp.

spinerfemme.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 02:45:33 PM EST

none

Oh!  I don't think I've ever seen a chinchilla before.  Very cute.  And the name is even cuter... almost painfully so.  Thank goodness he recovered from your accident.  Hopefully you've recovered as well.

kind regards,
spinerfemme

"Did you see that?" he asked, excitedly. "My thought just hit your jacket and then floated to the ground like my favorite piece of cheese!"

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^ 12

Re: I am such a wimp.

nmiguy.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:04:02 AM EST

none

Thanks.  Yeah Speedy is fine.  He is just the softest and cutest little pet.  Faster and friendlier than a squirrel, softer than a mink.  And smart too.  Chinchillas are rated as one of the smartest rodents, behind rats I think.  Rats are very crafty and smart.  A friend of mine had a pet rat named "Fink" and he was wicked smart.  (There I am betraying my South Boston roots there.)  Fink would sit on his shoulder whilehe watched TV and shell peanuts for him.  

Speedy's recovery is no less than a miracle.  He was just about dead when I brought him to Angell Memorial hospital.  Cost me a fortune to fix him up.  And my wife was not happy about that cost.  But he is a good pet, less than a year old.  Dogs require a lot of care and cost, and cats can be a lt of care.  My sister had 3 cats and 2 of them died of feline leukemia.  Chinchilas are nice house pets, but if one ever gets loose, forget about it.  You'd never catch a chinchilla once it gets outside.  

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