Politics

Saddam Set To Swing - Baghdad Braces For The Worse (More Of The Same)

MayorBob.

Posted to Politics on Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:03:18 AM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

The seemingly endless trial  of Saddam Hussein finally came to an end on November 5th.  A special Iraqi tribunal issued the judgment that nearly the entire world predicted for him as it sentenced the former strongman to death by hanging.

As the verdict was read Saddam shouted: "Long live the people! Long live the Arab nation! Down with the spies!" and "God is great."  Two of his codefendants also received a death sentence: Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti, Hussein's half-brother, who was head of Saddam's secret police; and Awad al-Bandar, who headed Iraq's revolutionary court.  Although it is alleged that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died at the hands of Saddam's regime during his rule, the trial only focused on one incident.  An attempt was made on Hussein's life in July, 1982 near the village of Dujail and 148 men and boys - all Shiite -- from the village were executed.  This incident is a precursor to many of his other alleged criminal acts during his reign as president, such as the chemical gassing of a Kurdish village.  Saddam is also on trial for charges related to another incident during his regime.  The death sentences are subject to automatic appeal.

All sense of propriety broke down in the Baghdad court, with Saddam shouting his protestations at the judge and one of his defense lawyers, former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark, being escorted out of the courtroom.  Meanwhile, outside the court, decorum (which is a nearly forgotten aspect of Iraqi life) fled the country almost immediately.  The verdict was greeted with jubilation and celebration in Shiite neighborhoods.  "I feel happy" was the statement of one Shiite merchant while thousands of his fellows rushed into the street cheering and firing guns into the air.  Reaction among the Sunni population was a bit different with fighting erupting between Sunni gunmen and members of the Iraqi Army.  The Prime Minister of Iraq, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, called for peace from his countrymen saying that the Saddam "era" was over and the death of Saddam couldn't compare to "one drop of the blood" from any of his victims:

"The verdict placed on the heads of the former regime does not represent a verdict for any one person. It is a verdict on a whole dark era that was unmatched in Iraq's history"
 The trial, which has been characterized by outbursts from Saddam and his fellow defendants, delays, and the murders of various lawyers, has been criticized for serious legal shortcomings.  An observer from Human Rights Watch said "we believe the serious shortcomings in the fairness of the proceedings undermined the legitimacy and credibility of the trial."

One of Saddam's defense counsel predicted if Saddam were sentenced to death, "The doors of hell will open in Iraq, the sectarian divide in the country will deepen, and many more coffins will be sent back to America."  With Iraqis dying at a clip of around 1,200 per month, October having been established as one of the costliest months in terms of American deaths, and the country already riven by sectarian violence, one wonders if anyone will notice the difference.

Tags: Written by MayorBob, Edited by 1fastdog, Saddam Hussein, Iraq, death penalty (all tags)

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1

Please, please, please call this what you want.

MayorBob.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:14:21 AM EST

5.00 (astute, interesting)

Call it "victor's justice."  Call it "the ultimate payback for fucking with Daddy Bush."  But, whatever you do, don't call it Karl Rove's "October (or November) Surprise."

First of all, it was hardly a surprise.  Second of all, I doubt that this verdict will make any difference to anyone who will be voting on Tuesday.  Third of all, as I stated when I ended the sub, will anyone notice the difference in violence and mayhem in Iraq as a result of this verdict?  I think not.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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^ 1

Why not?

freedomchild.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:46:19 AM EST

none

The timing of the verdict is very fishy, wouldn't you say? The perceived political benefit that this can have in the context of an election should not be overlooked.

This kind of move has much more to do with political gamesmanship than conventional logic. It is the belief of the republicans that this will help them. They still think that any issue connected with Saddam is a winner for them. It's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the administration called in a favor at such a critical time.   

We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose. We understand that hearing us say this is important to you.

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^ 2

Re: Why not?

anykey.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 11:38:58 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

"The timing of the verdict is very fishy, wouldn't you say?"

Naw. Fishy would be to do something like delaying massive troop deployments till after the election.

"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God."

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^ 2

Re: Why not?

MayorBob.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:52:46 AM EST

none

Why not, because I don't see any Democrat running on a platform of "justice for Saddam" or any local election upon which the fate of Saddam was an issue.  Not really an issue because nobody's surprised at the verdict.  Not really an issue because all politics really devolves into a local issue or matter and even the Kerry gaffe or the Haggardgate revelations is really going to matter which local politician you chose to represent you.  Besides which, there's been enough shit flung in the local elections that hardly anyone not nauseated and spewing their cookies into a toilet bowl has already made up their minds on this matter.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Why not?

freedomchild.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 10:09:10 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

Right, but it's not really about "justice for Saddam." It's more about the general rationale that they used saying that Saddam was a threat and that they were the ones responsible for "bringing him to justice." They feel that this verdict puts forward the impression that they want to promote. That they are the party of justice that will bring order to the world.

It should also be noted that if there was any influence in setting the date of the verdict (I can only suspect at this point), it came from the top. This might not have a direct effect on local races, but I can see the Roveian logic at work. It's a tanglible thing that they can point to. And they might think that local candidates need all the help they can get.

We have caught the sniper like a duck in a noose. We understand that hearing us say this is important to you.

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^ 3

Re: Why not?

nmiguy.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 08:22:39 AM EST

none

Mayorbob, This article implies that Bush is using the Saddam verdict to rally support for the election, and there is a big sweep in the polls.  So your argument which makes sense, seems to shrink to the senseless reality.

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Re: Why not?

MayorBob.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 08:36:15 AM EST

none

If you read a bit past the numbers, you'll find this piece of analysis about the polls:

"These kinds of polls, about the so-called generic ballot, measure national trends and do not necessarily provide an accurate measure of what is happening in individual House and Senate races. Andrew Kohut, the president of the Pew Center, said the poll nonetheless found that Republicans were becoming more enthusiastic as Election Day approached, a sign that the party was making progress in addressing one of its main problems this year: a dispirited base."
Also, the poll was taken before the news of Saddam's sentence was formally announced and it was a given that he was going to get the death penalty.  Finally, a spike upward or a dip down of three percent is not really remarkable when you consider all of these polls operate with accuracy factors of plus or minus five percent to begin with.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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^ 16

Re: Why not?

natophonic.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 01:40:43 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Finally, a spike upward or a dip down of three percent is not really remarkable when you consider all of these polls operate with accuracy factors of plus or minus five percent to begin with.

Seriously. If you get nothing out of high-school science class besides the knowledge that Earth is 6000 years old and Darwin hated baby Jesus, get this: if your margin of error is plus or minus 5 points and your next data point is 3 points different from your last, it means, quite literally, nothing. Now, if I were a right-wing conspiracy nut, I'd say that the omission of the margin of error from reports of the latest ABC polls is an attempt to freak out the Democrat base to get them to the polls tomorrow.

So, uh... OMFG the republicans are on the rebound and THEY"RE GAINING, they've already closed the gap by THREE POINTS! GO VOTE TOMORROW!!!!

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Re: Why not?

tomc.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 02:52:53 PM EST

none

I was taught that we're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel.

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^ 23

Re: Why not?

natophonic.

Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 10:49:11 PM EST

none


Personally, I'm descended from space otters. I could crush the rest of you like a clam on my tummy, and then I'd go "OMG! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

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^ 2

Re: Why not?

tomc.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 01:43:16 PM EST

none

Both parties are playing this down as a political event.  The Dems don't win anything from it, and the GOP is trying to take the focus OFF Iraq.

Of course, we haven't heard Dubya's imminent statement on this as of this posting.

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^ 1

Re: Please, please, please call this what you want

David Flores.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 09:13:22 AM EST

none

Second of all, I doubt that this verdict will make any difference to anyone who will be voting on Tuesday.  

Don't be too sure. Tuesday's results will depend a lot on turnout. And this verdict will give Fox news a bonafide excuse to run day in and day out with an Iraq story that paints the administration in the best possible light. If Fox can drive up turnout among otherwise disaffected Republicans by showering them with a bit of good news, you never know...

4

Saddam, whuu?

Lou.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 09:55:52 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

They're going to hang Saddam?  Shit, I thought this was Bin Laden.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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^ 4

Re: Saddam, whuu?

Acefantastik.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 10:49:10 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

I think they are waiting until halftime of the Pats-Colts game to announce the death of Bin Laden and the capture of Zawahiri.

25

Re: Saddam Set To Swing - Baghdad Braces For The W

Toby Flip.

Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 03:44:23 AM EST

2.33 (astute, interesting, illiterate)

Anybody else think he maybe deserves a pardon and an apology from the US?

  1. Falsely accused of harbouring terrorists and holding weapons of mass destruction.
  2. Attacked in preemptive strikes for the above reasons that crippled his already sanction-neutered country
  3. Hunted down along with his entire family, sons killed, property destroyed, remaining family scattered to the 4 winds.
  4. Country left close to civil war, Islamic fundamentalists in charge of large regions.
  5. Given to his enemies in a show trial and sentenced to execution in the style of a common criminal.

All this because he invaded a country that may well have been stealing Iraqi oil.  

and don't tell me that the Americans did any of it for the sake of the Kurds or any other Iraqi dissidents murdered by Hussein's regime.

Just cause you feel so good, do you have to drive me out of my head?

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Baghdad Braces For The W

Shy Elf.

Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 08:22:56 AM EST

none

Nice place to have the subject truncated, isn't it?

Life is just so unfair when you're a dictator consciously modeling your life on Stalin's.  And he was such good friends with the US too.  Whatever is the world coming to when you can't count on your friends?

Maybe instead he should just have gone to Japan on a forged passport to visit prostitu... umm, Disneyland, that's it.

8

Saddam's Replacements?

permazorch.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 12:30:55 PM EST

none

Well, color me impressed. It sounds like a swinging party, down the line. What about the batshit redrum existence in Iraq, now? How's tricks in 5 years look to my barking brethren? I predict Saddam II: Electric Boogaloo, or more of the current madness. I hope the TSA people are earning a living wage, and aren't suffering from high turnover, know what I mean, Vern?

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

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^ 8

Re: Predictions...

Steve Urkel.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 06:45:48 PM EST

none

I suppose your guess is more or less as bad as mine..

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^ 14

Re: Predictions...

permazorch.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 12:03:00 PM EST

none

I suppose your guess is more or less as bad as mine...
No doubt, no doubt. But, a cynical pessimist usually gets better odds, in this world, o infidel.
I don't for a second think Saddam deserves to get any bennies (since the war/psychobilly freakout is way-gone down & forever on), but hanging that scum-sucking sonovabitch right now will only add to the boiling over turmoil.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

10

Where's the UN?

tomc.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 01:45:23 PM EST

none

Anyone know what happened to UN protests about capital punishment in this case?

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^ 10

Re: Where's the UN?

ms sue.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 03:26:28 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, said Iraq should not carry out the execution and that it should guarantee fair appeals.

"A credible appeals process is an essential part of fair-trial guarantees and whatever the outcome of an appeal, I hope the government will observe a moratorium on executions," the Geneva-based organisation said in a statement.

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Re: Where's the UN?

tomc.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 03:50:47 PM EST

none

Thanks, ms_sue!

I heard today that in the "new Iraq", an appeal to a judicial tribunal is automatic after a death sentence has been handed down by a court.

I don't think that's automatic here in the US, is it?

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Re: Where's the UN?

MayorBob.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 at 04:56:22 PM EST

none

I think it's pretty much automatic.  Otherwise, what is to explain for the years (sometimes decades) that drag on between sentencing and execution?  I know all death sentences have a mandatory appeal in Delaware.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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^ 13

Re: Where's the UN?

port1080.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 09:23:05 AM EST

none

I think it's pretty much automatic. Otherwise, what is to explain for the years (sometimes decades) that drag on between sentencing and execution? I know all death sentences have a mandatory appeal in Delaware.

Even Texas has an automatic appeals process - they just expedite it. I believe, but I am not certain, that having an automatic appeal was one of the conditions that has made modern death penalty laws constitutional in the eyes of the SCOTUS.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

19

Need for Justice v. Need for Process

port1080.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 10:52:51 AM EST

none

While from most perspectives this is a "just" result for Saddam (he clearly was a bastard, he clearly authorized these activities, and they were clearly illegal under Iraqi and international law), the question right now is whether Iraq needs justice or process. Comparing this to the prosecution of Serbian war criminals is illustrative. In the Serbian case, we have a strict emphasis on process to the point that justice often seems to be curtailed (in that the sentences handed down may seem excessively light, or the clearly guilty are getting off on technicalities). Arguably, this emphasis on process is even more problematic in the Serbian case because the states involved are now relatively stable and in general have strong legal traditions.

In the case of Iraq, however, the state is in disarray and the rule of law is weak. Focusing on process in Iraq would show the Iraqi people that the protection of law is available even to the most reviled; if carried out appropriately (which is, of course, tricky - as the Milosovic case has shown us, if carried too far process arguments can appear to overly favor the criminal), this strengthening of procedural rights would have the potential to draw more people from the margins into the political process.

All that said, the chaotic state that Iraq is in right now probably belies any opportunity to gain advantages from a structural approach. Since the rule of law is so weak as to be laughable, giving Saddam a fair trial would only point out the inadequacy of the rest of the system. The best option would probably have been to delay Saddam's trial until the situation was stabilized, but that probably wasn't a real option either (considering the strong domestic desire of the Shiites and Kurds to have the trial immediately).

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Need for Justice v. Need for Process

tomc.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 at 11:36:14 AM EST

none

I wonder what is more important: justice or electricity?

24

^ 19

Too Slow

Shy Elf.

Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 12:23:03 AM EST

none

The best option would probably have been to delay Saddam's trial until the situation was stabilized.
The situation isn't going to stabilize.  Maybe you mean it should have been delayed until he dies of old age or mistreatment in prison while waiting for the civil war to end.

I'm inclined to the opposite view, that the trial was too slow.  Any conviction of Saddam is going to be regarded by a lot of people as unjust, and it's best to get the injuries you cause finished quickly.  Machiavelli said it best (The Prince, Chapter 8):

Hence it is to be remarked that, in seizing a state, the usurper ought to examine closely into all those injuries which it is necessary for him to inflict, and to do them all at one stroke so as not to have to repeat them daily; and thus by not unsettling men he will be able to reassure them, and win them to himself by benefits.
Also, had the trial occurred earlier and more quickly, and preferably judged by the relatively non-political mostly Sunni intellectual elite (who are now almost all dead or in other countries), it would have had a chance to be accepted as Iraqis trying an Iraqi.  Now it's just the Shiia trying Sunnis.

The verdict is unwise as well.  They should have compromised with the Sunnis and chosen the less degrading (by Iraqi standards) death by firing squad.

Anyhow, even with three defense attorneys assassinated during the trial, they could have done a much worse job.

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