Sport

Pretty Decent NBA brawl sure to be marred by much disapproval

Acefantastik.

Posted to Sport on Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 01:47:45 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Another professional sports melee.  Does it really count as a brawl if no blood is drawn?

You've probably heard by now of the melee at Madison Square Garden on December 16th, in which the National Basketball Association's leading scorer, Carmelo Anthony (of the Denver Nuggets) threw some punches at some New York Knicks players.  These actions will be sure to net Mr. Anthony a suspension and some bad press, as he really had no reason to punch up the Knickerbockers in a blowout game, and since the Knicks suck really bad,  roughing them up just seems poor form.

This much we know:  The NBA is sensitive to incidents such as this due to to the allegedly negative fallout from the coolest brawl ever. That, and the league is full of criminals and thugs.  No doubt the multitude of bloviating white sportsjournalists with manboobs will be quick to condemn the terrible, terrible horror that these young athletes have wreaked on our collective innocence, and we can only hope to move on (and that the Saints cover the spread this weekend, peace be upon them).

Although I should be excited for a full weekend of brawl replays, something is amiss.  Sports appeal to my Spartan urges, and a nice pusharound can enliven any game, exhibition, regular season, or playoff.  Hockey Fights? Nice. Baseball brawls?  Usually not that good, although that time Kyle Farnsworth laid a beating on Paul Wilson is pretty kickass (video not available.)  Football fights are plain silly, since punching a guy in the helmet or shoulder pad is, well, pointless.   Basketball fights tend to be pretty exciting, although they've really tapered off in intensity.  But something has changed--Everyone enjoys Kevin McHale vs. Kurt Rambis, but most brawls of late have a weird, Invisible Mannish quality about them.

Tags: written by Ace, edited by Port1080, NBA, basketball, brawl (all tags)

This story: 15 comments (5 from subqueue)
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1

Football fights...

port1080.

Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 01:56:43 PM EST

none

I wonder why there aren't more fights in football. I think that this:

Football fights are plain silly, since punching a guy in the helmet or shoulder pad is, well, pointless.

has something to do with it, but I think that there might be more to it than that. Football is all about putting a beat-down on your opponent - contact is not only encouraged, it's required. Maybe that makes football players a bit more cognizant of what they're doing and less eager to be foolish with their bodies. After all, most other team sports at least partially restrict physical contact. Even hockey has far more restrictions (at least in theory) than football. Perhaps we can get at this by comparing sports where contact is allowed, but the padding isn't so gratuitous - does anyone from outside the US have any comments about how often brawls occur in rugby or Australian rules football?

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

2

One Person Wasn't Amused.

MayorBob.

Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 02:09:15 PM EST

none

That would be NBA Commissioner David Stern who handed out big fines and suspensions all around.  Even though the Knicks got more players suspended than did the Nuggets, two of the suspensions are going to end up like a stake through the heart of the Nuggets chances this year.  Carmello Anthony and JR Smith are the two leading scorers on that team and their loss means a hash of the next ten games with both players gone and makes the following five problematic with Anthony gone.

And both teams got dinged to the tune of $500K apiece.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: One Person Wasn't Amused.

nmiguy.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 09:56:24 AM EST

none

Good point MayorBob.  The thing is, coach Karl thinks Isaiah Thomas order the fight, and he thinks Thomas is an asshole for it, trying to instigate and get Karl's best players suspended.  It really changes the playoff implications for the Nuggets.  I watched the Nuggets play the Celtics last week and I marvelled at how good Carmelo Anthony is.  He has been arguably the best player in the league so far this season.    I actually feel bad for him.  He made a really bad decision to let his emotions get away with him, but his apology seemed to be the best I have ever heard from a fighting situation.  He is sincerely remorseful for it, not because of fines or suspension, but for the repuation and the example he set for kids.  

I agree with Karl, Isaiah Thomas is a disgrace and should be fired from the Knicks.

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Re: One Person Wasn't Amused.

MayorBob.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 10:11:43 AM EST

none

Don't worry, you'll probably get your wish vis-a-vis Isaiah by the end of this season.  The Knicks are wretched and they got there the old fashioned way -- management signed enough square pegs hoping they'd fit into round holes for long enough it'll be years before the Knicks are competitive again.  For this, Isaiah shoulders a huge burden.  The only thing that will keep the Knicks from hitting the cellar of their division is the 76ers who are wretched trebled.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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76ers are wretched trebled

nmiguy.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 11:01:58 AM EST

none

Glad you mentioned the 76ers.  They have been trying their butts off to trade Iverson, and they can't swing a deal.  A lot of teams can't take the contract or don't have the talent to trade.  The Celtics have the talent, but they are not going to pull the trigger for multiple reasons.

  1.  The Celts have been winning with their young guys.
  2.  They don't want to give up Big Al Jefferson and 2 guards for AI, mortagaging their youth development
  3.  As long as the 76ers continue to stink, and AI isn't playing, NOT having him is as good as having him.  

I think a lot of teams that are potential suitors for Iverson from the east won't pul the trigger, because as long as he isn't playing and not helping the 76ers, he helps their teams without costing them a cent or a player.  IF Iverson gets traded it will be to the west.  

The fight in MSG will hamstring the Knicks and the Nuggets for the next quarter of the season.  Other teams will benefit.  

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Breaking News, AI traded to Denver

nmiguy.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 02:33:38 PM EST

none

Hey MayorBob, ESPN is reporting that Iverson is being traded to the Denver Nuggets, presumably to fill the scoring void of Carmelo Anthony.  I think the Nuggets feel they can compete for the NBA title, but the suspensions are a real road block to that.  


The trade, some two weeks after Iverson demanded a trade in Philly, would send Andre Miller, Joe Smith and two 2007 first-round picks to the Sixers for Iverson and perhaps another minimum-salaried player or two. It was expected to be completed later Tuesday barring any snags.

I was pretty sure that AI would go to a West team.  

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Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

MayorBob.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 04:20:11 PM EST

none

Once Iverson dresses up in a Nuggets uniform, don't expect to see the ball out of AI's hands much.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

nmiguy.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 08:32:17 AM EST

none

He is the TO of Basketball.  Selfish, a clubhouse cancer and extremely gifted.  For a smaller guy in the league, he is an impact player.  Carmelo Anthony is a fantastic player.  When I watch him play I see a guy with a ton of talent and versatility.   But having Iverson gives them a legit outside threat.  

As for Philly, it is addition by subtraction.  How do you feel about the end of the Iverson era in your hometown?  

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Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

MayorBob.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 10:03:49 AM EST

none

They weren't going anywhere with him.  And with the baggage the team piled on by trading for Chris Webber, the Sixers were locked into just being mediocre at best over the next couple of years.  This way, the team becomes automatically terrible this year and they get two extra first round picks from the Nuggets.

I think Billy King (Sixers GM) is hoping Greg Oden, the kid from Ohio State leaves school early and they can nab him.  I don't know if that will work out because I heard that Oden is serious about getting an education and has the discipline of a Tim Duncan to pass on instant riches for much, much more later on.

With the Sixers and Flyers in full stinker mode, once the Eagles play their last game, it's going to be a cold, long sports winter in Philly.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

10

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Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

nmiguy.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 11:14:14 AM EST

none

With the Sixers and Flyers in full stinker mode, once the Eagles play their last game, it's going to be a cold, long sports winter in Philly.

Well at least you can look forward to the release of Rocky Balboa.  (Ducks, to avoid thrown objects.)

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Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

thefadd.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 05:52:53 PM EST

none

10th in the league in assists, 3rd on his franchise's all-time assist list, averaged better than 7 assists per game each of the last 3 seasons...I'm not seeing "selfish."

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

12

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Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

thefadd.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 06:11:24 PM EST

none

AI will lead the league in assists and defer to Mello. I'm so excited about this trade, I'm going to buy the NBA package on my directv and actually start watching games again. I just wish NBA Jam were still around -- I'm sure this would be the best tandem since Zo and gran' mama.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

13

^ 12

Re: Here's a newsflash to Nugget players.

MayorBob.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 at 09:24:59 PM EST

none

You can take a month to get the NBA package because Mello's going to be sitting it out with that suspension.  As to AI deferring to Anthony when they're both on the court, I'll wait and see.  AI will give you 100 percent each and every night, but he's going to have that month being the only scorer on the Nuggets.  I'm just wondering how well they'll mesh once they're together.  All I do know is that there's nothing to root for about the Sixers until the lottery.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

14

Re: Pretty Decent NBA brawl sure to be marred by m

thefadd.

Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 01:28:56 AM EST

none

I do think it will make it more difficult for the transition. Here, Iverson will be asked to carry the load and then he'll be asked to mesh with Mello after 2 months. I think he's gotten to the point in his career, though, were like a lot of vets he just wants to win. All the fantasy "experts" are predicting lower points for the leagues two leading scorers now that they are on the same team but majorly increased assists for Iverson.

They haven't done it yet, but maybe this will help to young guys like Iggy, Dalembert and Korver to mature. I just wish they could get rid of Webber. Landing his contract was the death knell for AI in Philly.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

15

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Iverson is excellent

Acefantastik.

Thu Dec 21, 2006 at 08:49:53 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

I come to second your quoting of Allen Iverson's better than expected assist ratios.  Fine, he's a bit of a ballhog (and has been since he was a Hoya), but really, did he ever play with another decent offensive player?  Sorry, Aaron Mckie and Mutombo don't count as 'decent'.   Who else is supposed to score the points when all your other players kind of suck?  

I heart Allen Iverson for many reasons, but perhaps the paramount reason is that every time he's in a game, he's hustling his ass off.  Remember how sports culture used to laud Joe DiMaggio because he played hard, no matter the score?  That's what AI represents to me---it doesn't matter what the hell he does off the court, be it staying up late with the wrong crowd, or allegedly pistol-whipping a naked woman on his cousin's porch.  Hell, Mr. DiMaggio was a known party guy and he was also alleged to be a wife-beater, but history reveres him.  

History will eventually give AI his due, but he will also always be associated with the uber-blackification of the NBA in the 1990s.   Oh, sure, back in the 1970s, lots of the Knicks and Sixers and Lakers had black players with Afros and long fur coats, but those fellows never really threatened to take over the league.  Coaches still had all the power, and teamwork was still all the rage in the 70s and 80s.   But in the 1990s, black guys started getting scary tattoos, backsassing their coaches, getting arrested in higher-profile incidents, making rap albums, oh, and by the way, controlling the style of play in the game.    The old (white) basketball establishment,  those cranks who believe that the four corners offense and the Auerbach reign of terror were the holy tenants of hoops were clearly alarmed and disgusted by this bevy of young rebellious negroes, and the poster boy for all of these characters was Allen Iverson.    Every time Sheed or Artest or Steven Jackson does something silly,  Allen Iverson is "remembered" as the guy who opened the floodgates for the NBA thug culture.

Oh, and what about that whole "practice" thing?  OMG ALLEN IVERSON IS LAZY AND SELFISH AND DOESN'T WANT TO PRACTICE BASKETBALL IS IN TROUBLE!!!   I declare shenanigans on that entire premise.  First, I will put the whole quote, and emphasize the exculpatory words:

If Coach tells you that I missed practice, then that's that. I may have missed one practice this year but if somebody says he missed one practice of all the practices this year, then that's enough to get a whole lot started. I told Coach Brown that you don't have to give the people of Philadelphia a reason to think about trading me or anything like that. If you trade somebody, you trade them to make the team better...simple as that. I'm cool with that. I'm all about that. The people in Philadelphia deserve to have a winner. It's simple as that. It goes further than that ... If I can't practice, I can't practice. It is as simple as that. It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about practice. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that? ... Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you've seen me play right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right now. ... Hey I hear you, it's funny to me too, hey it's strange to me too but we're talking about practice man, we're not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we're talking about practice ... How in the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?

So, he says something that is essentially true, but he gets crucified in the media for damaging the game.     Meanwhile:

Other basketball stars (cough Shaq) are allowed to show up to camp fat and out of shape, then coast through the first 25 games.  But he's lovable Shaq!  Law-enforcer! He smiles! He's like a giant Cosby!

A slew of baseball pitchers, most notably Roger Clemens, are allowed to miss practice and even actual games when they won't have to play.  But when Allen shows up to a game he's not playing in, it can be generated into a problem by the media--blame the player, not the hamfisted 76er management.  

Brett Farve is allowed to skip training camp, and he seems to hold weekly press conferences to announce the time for his next press conference, at which he will announce that he loves football, and isn't sure whether he's retiring yet.   What a warrior!  He's a true gunslinger!  

It just seems to me that a contigent of the media just doesn't like Allen, so anything they can print that makes him look like less of a basketball superstar is good for them.  But the man plays his ass off, he never stops hustling,  and he gives you everything he's got,  so I don't give a damn what the hell he does with his off-work hours.    Isn't that what America should be about?  

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