Religion

Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

MayorBob.

Posted to Religion on Tue Jan 09, 2007 at 02:32:09 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

The College of William and Mary existed in Williamsburg, Virginia long before there was a constitutional doctrine of separation of church and state.  Indeed, as the school was founded in 1693, it existed before there was a US Constitution or even a nation under which it operated.  Thus, it likely seemed a natural thing for William and Mary's founders to place a Christian cross on the altar of the main chapel on campus.  But, that was then and this is now and what seemed natural then is anything but now.  Now, we're in the midst of an era of diversity and inclusion and the cross was seen as potentially divisive by some.  Thus, an effort was made to reduce the divisiveness and make the chapel a more "welcoming" place to all.  But there is no such thing as an effort to make everything more "welcoming" which doesn't get viewed as an attempt to marginalize something else.  So it is with the case of the cross and the college.  

William and Mary is no longer a private school; it's been a public institution since the beginning of last century.  Gene Nichol is the president who decided having an 18-inch-high cross on the altar of the Wren Chapel might be offensive to some.  After all, the chapel is considered a general gathering place on campus with Christian services only taking place on Sundays.  In October, Nichol ordered the cross removed and stored in the chapel sacristy until someone specifically asked that it be placed on the altar for services.  He also ordered a plaque mounted on a wall noting that the chapel was originally built as an Anglican place of worship.

Nichol's decision was met with a firestorm of protest from alumni and students who formed a group called Save The Wren Cross (STWC).  Their major complaint is that an attempt to be more inclusive for others is marginalizing Christians, reeks of "political correctness" and is part of a plot by "radical secularists" to rid public spaces of any religious symbols.  They organized an effort which resulted in over 7,000 people signing an online petition deploring Nichol's decision.  Nichol mulled over all of the consternation his decision wrought and announced some modifications to his decision in a letter to the college community.  He allowed as how his decision might be characterized as "hasty" and he's decided the cross could remain on the altar on Sunday.  But, for the most, he's sticking to his guns about the cross, it's potential divisiveness, and the goal of inclusiveness on campus:

"Does the Wren Chapel, our most remarkable place, belong to every member of the College community, or is it principally for our Christian students? Do we take seriously our claims for religious diversity, or do we, even as a public university, align ourselves with one particular religious tradition?"
Vince Haley, founder of STWC, is not mollified.  According to him, STWC's going-in position was that the cross belonged in the chapel 24/7 and anything else is an affront.  He is joined by conservative bloggers and media types decrying the situation as well as Liberty Counsel, a legal group with ties to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University.  Liberty Counsel has made noises about this becoming a First Amendment issue and the dean of Liberty's Law School said that Nichol's actions "showed hostility .. not neutrality to religion."  Meanwhile, back on campus, the case of the cross has sparked debate but no formal move to rescind Nichol's decision.  The student senate overwhelmingly defeated a motion to restore the cross.  Although some non-Christian student groups said they hadn't been calling for the removal of the cross, they weren't upset that it isn't on the altar 24/7 either.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by MayorBob, school, First Amendment, diversity, Christianity (all tags)

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Remember, remember

gerrymander.

Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 03:40:30 PM EST

3.00 (funny, funny)

If the presence of an 18" cross is too much of a an infringement upon civil liberties, what are we to make of an entire university devoted to a foreign king and queen? I say the entire school (save the Thomas Jefferson bit) is a pro-British conspiracy, and an affront to the sovereignty of the United States. Burn it all, starting with Nichol, the obvious leader of this Tory plot.

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 09, 2007 at 06:05:17 PM EST

none

I think this is much more an issue of community and leadership than anything else. Certainly, W&M is a public institution and thus falls under certain church-state considerations. But as we've seen most recently in the Dixie County, Florida Ten Commandments case, if the whole community wants something then the whole community gets it, regardless of federal law.

In this case, the school President acted in a way which was consistent with the law and consistent with the concept of being a more inclusive community. However, he made one major error -- he didn't include the community. Apparently the chapel has become a place that is not solely of the christian purvey and I would think that even if they may not like it, they would have to acknowledge that it is a place of community. It would be nice then, if a way were forged were all people who use the place can have representations of themselves and their faiths present in the building. But they way to do that is never by decree.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

port1080.

Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 12:07:55 PM EST

none

I'm an atheist, but this still rubs me wrong. If "the chapel was originally built as an Anglican place of worship" then the cross should stay - once a building is built as a place of worship for a specific faith, it is hostile to that religion to try to de-sacralize it. If the school is tight on space for public gatherings, then it should build new facilities. There are plenty of other ways to be inclusive and respect other religions that don't involve insulting the dominant one.

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

profwhat.

Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 04:24:57 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Hold on.  A great deal of things were once religious, but now secular.  Massachusetts, for example.  It is not hostile to re-purpose a religious building as secular, especially when you own it.

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

wetkarma.

Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 01:35:17 PM EST

none

I tend to agree with port1080. If you change something that was intended to be religious into something secular you are causing detriment to the original religious purpose/intent.

On a historic level, the Hagia Sophia was once an Eastern Orthodox church (christian). It is a stunning example of architecture and rivals the Taj Mahal in beauty. It also got converted to a mosque in the 14th century by the Turks.

Surely you'll recognize that the conversion caused harm to christianity due to the loss of such an iconic building.

You bring up Massachusetts but would the pilgrims who founded the colony to escape religious persecution appreciate the secular nation of the state? As a libertarian type I generally believe that ownership means you do whatever you want with what you own - and in my mind the college is free to burn the building down if they so choose (as well as removing or trample on the cross).

But this right to destroy/change doesn't mean that the action is removed from consequences.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

Thalia.

Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 03:58:18 PM EST

none

You mean all those old churches being converted into shelters, and bars are a "detriment to religion"?  

The real question here is whether a public university can (1) legally maintain a pre-existing religious structure, and (2) has the legal right to change that structure.  I think the answer to the second question is obviously a yes.  They have every legal right to do what they wish.  The answer to (1) is actually interesting.  I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my tax dollars being spent to maintain a building for the exclusive use of one religion, at a public university.

Thalia

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

wetkarma.

Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 08:36:38 PM EST

none


You mean all those old churches being converted into shelters, and bars are a "detriment to religion"?  

No - not a detriment to religion, but as I said - to the religious intent behind the purpose of the building's construction and thus harming whatever religion the building was meant to be a focus for.


The real question here is whether a public university can (1) legally maintain a pre-existing religious structure, and (2) has the legal right to change that structure.  I think the answer to the second question is obviously a yes.  They have every legal right to do what they wish.  The answer to (1) is actually interesting.  I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my tax dollars being spent to maintain a building for the exclusive use of one religion, at a public university.

Why the draw the line at "exclusive use of one religion"? It seems to me that the discomfort would stem from maintaining a building for exclusively religious use, or is it only a problem when jewish taxes pay for catholic churches vs. say when atheist taxes pay for mosques?

If we are talking about discomfort on how your (or my tax dollars) are spent, I have a long list of issues - first and foremost starting with Social Security --- care to delve?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

Thalia.

Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 09:45:35 PM EST

none

There really isn't a constitutional guarantee against the involvement of government in supporting old people.  But the First Amendment is pretty clear about the establishment of religion being a no-no.  So establishing a religious place, and yes for any religion, is a problem.  I think the university should make it over into a general use building which may be used for religious or secular purposes.  There are numerous such former chapels that are student-use buildings at various universities, for example.  The atheists or humanists can have the building just as well as the Anglicans and the Muslims.  

Thalia

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Re: Too Much Of A Cross To Bear?

port1080.

Thu Jan 11, 2007 at 10:13:25 PM EST

none

But the First Amendment is pretty clear about the establishment of religion being a no-no. So establishing a religious place, and yes for any religion, is a problem...I think the university should make it over into a general use building which may be used for religious or secular purposes.

There are a few things to think about here...first off, what about religions that require a consecrated space to hold services? Are we not discriminating against them if we do not allow them to have a worship space on campus? How would you about a campus cafeteria that refused to provide kosher food to Jewish students during Passover? After all, it costs the school more money to be kosher - so isn't that in some sense a case of the school spending money to favor a religion?

My ideal preference (being an atheist) would be that the state be completely religion-free and not provide any recognition that religion even exists. No religious holidays, no mention of God in the State of the Union address, no Congressional chaplain, etc, etc.

Recognizing that that's not going to happen, however, my second preference is that the state simply provide a fair playing ground for all religions - if there's enough demand, everyone gets their own chapel, etc. I do think, however, that if we're going to go that route we need to be fair to Christians as well, both from a pure "fairness" justification as well as from a more practical recognition that Christians are still the majority religion in the US, so if we want them to tolerate other religions we have to soft-pedal it so that they don't feel threatened and all go over to the Pat Robertson's of the world.

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