Politics

Schism in the Anglican Church?

kiwiana.

Posted to Politics on Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:17:42 PM EST. RSS.

Archbishop Rowan Williams has done his best to keep the Anglican congregation united, but it looks like the battle has been lost.

The impending split has been brewing for quite some time, with the liberal (mainly new world) parts of the church prepared to accept gay and women clergy and gay marriage blessings, all of which infuriate the arch conservative, mostly African, wing of the church.  The immediate trigger seems to be the appointment of a gay bishop by the Episcopalian (US Anglican) church in 2003 and their refusal to repent for that choice.

Now, the Church is at the beginning of a divorce, which promises to be messy.

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5

ha

rombuu.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 12:46:57 PM EST

4.00 (funny, funny)

Now, the Church is at the beginning of a divorce, which promises to be messy.

Well, the Anglican's don't have any problem with divorce, right?  Or is that just for kings?

6

^ 5

Well, that and...

tomc.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 11:59:07 PM EST

none

Well, the Anglican's don't have any problem with divorce, right?

Executing tiresome wives is also acceptable practice.

Though back in the day they were a lot more formal about it.  None of this subterfuge stuff.

8

^ 6

Huh?

Nameless Cynic.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 08:12:22 PM EST

none

Well, the Anglican's don't have any problem with divorce, right?
Executing tiresome wives is also acceptable practice.
Excuse me?

Is that an option? 'Cause I know some people who'd really go for it, rather than pay alimony...

It's like "Night of the Living Republican." The idiots are right outside, and they want to eat your brain.

9

^ 8

Henry VIII

kiwiana.

Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 04:42:50 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I believe that was a historical reference.  Although, I think one of the major reasons why Henry broke with Rome was so that he didn't have to execute his wives and could just divorce them.

The historical origins of the Church of England are quite illuminating, I think.  It was a way of unifying the religious and political power of the state in one person - the monarch, and was always intended to be a broad church, fudging somewhat the difficult doctrines so that everyone could worship in the same way, at least outwardly.  It may not occur to Episcopalians much, but the head of the Church of England is still the Queen.  She's a very religious lady I understand, but it is a bit of an odd setup.

Now the Church remains a bit of a fudge, which is finally becoming impossible to sustain.  An example - last year it was decided that a gay clergyman in the church could be partnered with someone of the same sex, but would have to confirm that their partnership is celibate.  Is that not the most ridiculous bit of hairsplitting you've every heard?  Oh, yes, God loves his children, gay is ok, gay love is even ok, but gay sex? nooooo....

It's a shame that the heirarchy they are setting up puts the right wing (no gays, no female clergy, etc) "closer" to the Anglican communion than the more liberal parts of the Church.  I have no idea why things worked out that way and it seems odd that a man of such impeccably liberal inclinations as Rowan Williams is embracing a section of the church that is so profoundly at odds with his own faith.

the only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

10

^ 8

History: yesterday and today

tomc.

Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 11:09:41 AM EST

none

Per Kiwiana, a historical reference.  

Although killing off a wife by subterfuge is a more recent phenomenon amongst kings-in-waiting.

1

And in other news...

Dyolf Knip.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 02:33:36 PM EST

3.00 (obnoxious, funny)

Peace negotiations between Star Wars and Star Trek fans have broken down yet again.  Citing irreconcilable differences in interpretation of technical manuals yielding different results in an Enterprise vs Star Destroyer match-up, the two groups have no choice but to resume their conflict.

The Lucasites and the Trekkies have been arch-rivals for several decades now, each group vying for control over the souls of the sci-fi audience.  Hostilites first broke out with the release of Episode 4 when a High Jedi Master claimed that Han Solo could beat the crap out of James Kirk "Any day of the week".

Seriously, another hokey religion schisms into two hokey religion.  This is news?

2

^ 1

A little respect, please

tomc.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 06:44:21 PM EST

5.00 (funny, brilliant, funny)

I'd hardly call the schism betweeen Star Wars fans and Trekkies "hokey".

3

^ 2

hokey?

Chronon.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 02:56:21 AM EST

2.00 (astute, astute)

I wouldn't necessarily consider a movement that further fractures the power structure of the Christian church to be hokey.

I appreciate the sentiment, but the analogy is a bit off.  Star Trek and Star Wars were never a unified Sci-Fi cosmology.

4

^ 1

depends where you're looking from

socky.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 04:10:39 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

in the US, the liberal church will likely stand unaffected although for anyone who's interested, membership could be increasingly seen as taking a side on a wider set of issues. No-one is going to suffer much more than heartache.

in Africa, however, one of the major churches is about to lose a link, however stretched that was getting, to another strain of religious practice that doesn't depend on identifying "evil" elements to keep people in check. (witches, demon children, gays, women with labia, women who have been raped, et alia). There are plenty of other humane religious and non-religious codes in Africa. But I can't help feeling that every little helps. It seems odd that in 10 or 15 years' time the Catholic Church could be the most pragmatic Christian sect active there.

In England (and Wales I think) the main risk is heartache. The Anglican church here - probably because it's the default church rather than one you choose - has encompassed the entire spectrum of views for a long time although it one set of traditionalists when it ordained women (most of them converted to Catholicism). Rowan Williams is trying manfully to fudge the morals and theology of this one, possibly out of concern for Africans. Anglicans here know it and seem mostly to accept it as in a bigger good cause - or at least as avoiding another decade of bureaucratic misery on the domestic front.    

7

^ 1

all hail king harry potter!

thefadd.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 11:43:38 AM EST

none

that is all, ye of the lesser geek gods.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

11

Re: Schism in the Anglican Church?

Anonymous Hero.

Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:44:21 AM EST

none

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