Media

Super-Duper Stupor Stomper

permazorch.

Posted to Media on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 02:23:29 AM EST. RSS.

 

    Every summer movie season gets superheroes these days. In 2004, we had Spider-Man 2. In 2005, Batman Begins, and this year we are given X-Men: The Last Stand and Superman Returns.

"SPOILER WARNING IN EFFECT"
    The last title has just opened in the US of A, and has received glowing notices as well as cool assessments.

     Bearing in mind TnT's (likely small) comic fan and (likely large) moviegoer readership, I thought it might be nice to talk about our all-time favorite superhero movies and comics, and to assess the critics' responses to that "over-grown boy scout", Superman, in his latest incarnation.

Tags: movies, entertainment, summer blockbusters (all tags)

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3

After LXG

uncarved block.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 09:56:28 AM EST

5.00

   Having finally had the chance to read the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen graphic novel and compare it to the movie, I fervently hope that my favorite comic- The Watchmen- never makes it to the big screen. Hollywood (and perhaps movie audiences) seems entirely unready to allow moral ambiguity on to the screen. Ask yourself, those who've read the work-- do you trust any director to get that ending on to the screen?
    Probably a moot concern anyway, since the original relied so heavily on the fear of total destruction that accompanied the Cold War, an atmosphere the target audience (18-30) could only recall dimly, if at all. (Heck, I was 18 in 1985, and the memories are getting hazier every year.) I just can't see a major studio wanting to get behind a project like that, and can't see how the current trope of terrorism could be grafted in to the basic storyline. Of course, Hollywood has a knack for screwing things up, so anything is possible . . .

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

8

^ 3

Extraordinary

permazorch.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 09:30:50 AM EST

5.00

The Watchmen is a comic I don't hesitate to put into the "Classics" category. I got a kick out of that sucker comparable to what the best movies/novels have to offer. It is extremely, uh, filmic, in and of itself (storyboards already done!). If Zack -Dawn of the Dead remake- Snyder could repeat his magic, it might not be too bad. Still, I'd prefer it not fucked with at all, or, as suggested below, made into an HBO miniseries (a la Deadwood).

I thought V for Vendetta was actually a slight improvement (blasphemy, I know) on the comic. Superman Returns didn't give me near the high I got from that movie. I just saw the new 'Supes', last night. I didn't love it the way Walter Chaw did, but thought it was, in a way, the best of all the Superman movies. There was something missing, though, and I hesitate to say soul, or innocence, but, after viewing 1978's Superman: The Movie (made in its own era of cynicism), last week, I had fewer tears to shed, inside or out. I also have the distinct feeling that the new interpretation's casting director should never work again. Kate Bosworth is a decent actress, but, this role? No, no, no, no! Brandon Routh was fine, but there were about 5 times he looked computer-generated where he had no business being done that way. In orbit? Sure. Intimate close-ups? What-the-fong?! One last nitpick: No African-Americans - at all. I counted one brown nurse, one swarthy henchman, but nobody else was more or less than pink. The US Eastern Seaboard that I love is a riot of color. It's a good thing to come home to, after a couple of years in Central Europe.

X-Men: The Last Stand was remarkably painless for a Brett Ratner movie. At least 'the rat' ain't no Uwe Boll. That guy is a supervillain.

A tacit endorsement for matinee prices only.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

16

^ 8

Saw "Last Stand" this weekend

JimmyHavok.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 10:13:25 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

I was pretty impressed with it.  A lot of reviewers were disappointed at how little time any of the characters got, but when you've got a couple of dozen people in a movie, none of them are going to get much screen time.

Next time around, they can do a small-ensemble piece and give the characters more time to emote.

The "mutant = gay" theme was pretty strong throughout, especially in the goth outfits that Magneto's crew wore.

I thought it was cute the way Professor X's wheels were always posed in a perfect X n every shot, exactly the same as the belt buckle emblems, never a cross.

21

^ 8

The Watchmen

GreenLantern68.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 08:49:15 AM EST

none

Moore and Gibbons' "The Watchmen" is one of the best stories I've ever read.  Period, the end.

As much as it would tickle my inner geek, I don't think we can expect to see a "Watchmen" movie in our lifetimes.  Anything less than a four-hour running length for a feature film version would be incomplete, and anything lower than an "R" rating would be criminal.

Someone commented that the solution was to have HBO or Showtime develop "The Watchmen" as a miniseries.  Oh it wouldn't be as SEXY as a Hollywood film release, but you'd have rabid fans waiting for the DVD sales, and a smart marketer could stretch the story over two, maybe three seasons!

Wait...why are we not all in the movie business again?  Oh yeah, we're not big enough ass-babies to be Hollywood types.

-The Green Assbaby

5

^ 3

bound to happen though

kermit.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 03:01:19 PM EST

none

a movie version of the watchman has been in almost constant preproduction since it came out
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0409459/
there have been many scripts written and many directors attached over the last 20 years but no one has come up with a good version. But an IP like the watchmen is hard to come by and comics which have been adapted to well made movies raked in tons of cash ( X-men, Spidermen). Watchmen is the daddy. too good an oppertunity to pass up yet extraordinarily difficult to adapt. I would love it if they just left it alone.
my only fear is that they give up trying to make a movie that would do justice to the brilliant source material, the fans and the general public and just end up hiring Uwe Boll to direct.

7

^ 3

Watchmen as a movie

JimmyHavok.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 05:17:01 PM EST

none

The book is simply too large to make into a movie.  Look at what had to be trimmed from V for Vendetta in order to bring it to the screen: as respectful as the adaptation is, the movie is essentially 1/3 of the story, and even that is a bit condensed.

In order to be faithfully produced, Watchmen would have to be done for TV, ideally turning each issue into an episode .  With DVD sales factored in, there's a chance that could be a profitable venture.

To me, the only way it would be worthwhile would be if it was translated as faithfully as Rodrigues did Sin City, and perhaps the success of Sin City will make this possible.

25

^ 7

Sin City and comic book movies

Shadarr.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 07:19:06 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

I watched Sin City recently, and while I'll readily admit that Rodriguez did an amazing job of creating a movie that had the same feel as the comic, I'm not sure what that's worth.  I've never read Sin City, I don't really have any desire to.  Same goes for pretty much every comic book.  Sin City the movie was fairly entertaining, somewhat hard to follow and overall unremarkable.  As a non-comic book geek, I don't really care how faithful an adaptation of The Watchman or Sandman is, because I won't even know.  I only care whether it's a good movie as compared to other movies.

The reason Spider Man and X-Men have done so well in theaters is that they work as movies, whether you're familiar with the source material or not.

--
Bite the hand.

1

Superflicks

GreenLantern68.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 06:28:02 AM EST

3.00 (astute)

Alright, as if my user name wasn't clue enough I am a proud, deep, dyed in the wool comics geek.  Frankly I couldn't be happier that the last several years have brought out major superhero themed releases.

Though the odd thing is the increased attention never really translates into new comic sales.  People who are already reading comics continue to read them AND see the movie.  People who just see "Spider-Man 2" or "Superman Returns" really just see movies, but don't ever seem to reach much to begin with.

Then you have the other side - the comic geeks that complain about every little change between the comics and the film.  Look - it's tough to distil 20 or 40 or whatever years of storytelling into a 2 hour movie.  Compromise is essential.

And for the record, while Peter Parker's organic webshooters make sense vis a vis the mechanical ones he uses in the comics, I still prefer the original ones that require web fluid and occasionally get jammed up.  More dramatic that way.

12

^ 1

Go Web Go!

3fingerspointback.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 01:11:57 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny)

I also prefer the original web explanation.  As it is now, I get the creepy feeling that Spider Man is getting around the city using massive trails of his own snot.  J. Jonah needs to be using that as the basis for his editorial campaign.

(is 3fingerspointback)

2

^ 1

Movies don't increase comics readers

teaweed.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:52:41 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

I suspect comics don't receive sales boosts because they're not sold in mainstream outlets. Books made into movies can be purchased (with movie image covers) at bookstores, convenience stops and groceries. Comic books, with the exception of compilations, are generally not even available at bookstores. One must track down a local, hole-in-the wall boutique. Requiring consumers to find and breach the middle-aged-guy-going-on-teenage-boy subculture vibe of the average comics shop is just a bit much.

23

^ 2

Barnes and Noble

stevetherobot.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 01:21:36 PM EST

none

Comic books, with the exception of compilations, are generally not even available at bookstores.

My local Barnes and Noble carries comic books, not just the compilation and I suspect that the Books a Million does as well.

When I was a kid, I bought comic books at the grocery store, but I haven't noticed if they still carry comic books.

26

^ 2

Steve is right

WhoAreWe.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:50:36 PM EST

none

I see comics in quite a few (not all) bookstores.  Usually in graphic novel form, sometimes in magazine-like form.

Manga (and manga-like derivations) are also available in bookstores.

What race card?

11

^ 1

High School science GENIOUS

maml.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 12:44:19 PM EST

none

And for the record, while Peter Parker's organic webshooters make sense vis a vis the mechanical ones he uses in the comics, I still prefer the original ones that require web fluid and occasionally get jammed up.  More dramatic that way.

But of course they also required the biggest suspension of disbelief.  They're way, way too good for some high school kid to cook up in his bedroom.

But is was cool that he'd run out of web fluid or suffer jams or just have them broken sometimes.  It seems like the organic webshooters should be causing him massive vitamen deficiency problems.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

29

^ 11

Web Fluid

GreenLantern68.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 06:58:13 AM EST

4.66 (funny, brilliant, brilliant)

My oldest friend commented several years ago that Peter would be a millionare just for the web fluid alone.  Noone at 3M or BASF has come up with a superior, flexible, temporary adhesive like his web fluid.

Along those same lines, it dawned on me that his web shooters would have to be custom machine tooled in order to look that good and function that well.

Custom.  Machine.  Tooled.  A 15 year old with access to custom machine tools.  Wait...wait...a POOR 15 year old kid with access to custom machine tools.  That can make...something...by..himself...without...supervision...yeah...

Nope.  It just don't add up.  God love American books!  Now I'm going to fly off using the energy from my high-tech alien space ring!  It does TOO work!  Don't mind the sounds I'm just doing them for...er...practice...AWAY!

<holding out arms and making wooshing noises as I run off Freakazoid style>

30

^ 29

NEW CRUSH

permazorch.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 09:53:40 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

<holding out arms and making wooshing noises as I run off Freakazoid style>

I love you. It just took one word in one sentence. Sane people will pity you, GL68, but they can't stop these feelings of adoration.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

33

^ 30

One word?

maml.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 09:20:57 PM EST

none

"Whooshing"?

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

34

^ 33

Naahhh!

permazorch.

Fri Jul 07, 2006 at 02:34:35 PM EST

none

Freakazoid, you plastic-tree-thing freakazoid, you!

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

35

^ 34

I loved that show...

maml.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:24:22 PM EST

none

but "whooshing" really does it for me.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

36

^ 35

Re: I loved that show...

permazorch.

Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 12:46:17 PM EST

none

Wooshing or whooshing are both fine. I mean, you really have to have the whole sentence to get off on it.

Whoooooooooooooossssssssssshhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

27

^ 11

Organic webbing

WhoAreWe.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 08:53:12 PM EST

none

Technically wouldn't his organic webs be made of mainly protein, probably Keratin?

What race card?

32

^ 27

OK, science guy...

maml.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 09:19:38 PM EST

none

Keratin, eh?

Well, I figure they'd probably be mostly water.  Then maybe protein.  

Whatever they are composed of, it stands to reason the Peter Parker would have to be eating their mass in something.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

22

^ 1

Web shooters

stevetherobot.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 01:18:36 PM EST

none

The organic web shooters do have some basis in the comic books.  The symbiote suit created webbing from itself and the Spiderman in Spiderman 2099 had organic web shooters.

6

Thor?

subsailor.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 04:04:43 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

I've been wondering for years when the current "let's make every Marvel hero a movie" trend would get around to a Thor movie.

Superman...I'm skeptical (haven't seen the new one, didn't think the old ones were that good).  There was a dark element of many years of the comics that they left out, methinks.

XMen...now those were good movies.  More moral ambiguity would be nice, but especially with Wolverine they show that heroes aren't always "perfect".  The next one, as well as the "prequels" planned (I've heard of a Storm, Wolverine, and Xavier/Magneto prequel in the offing) are sure to be solid movies.

Not that he's a "hero", though he occasionally did some good, but I'm looking forward to "Ghostrider".

Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. - ADM Hyman G. Rickover, USN (1900 - 1986)

13

^ 6

Why I'm unsure it will happen.

3fingerspointback.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 01:30:12 PM EST

5.00 (astute, informative)

I've noticed that the Marvel adaptations made so far have all kept well away from depicting any of the aliens or gods* that pop up so frequently in the comic series.  So the Phoenix becomes the name given to a part of Jean Grey's subconcious mind, and the Mutant vaccine came only from Earth scientists.  The origin story of the Venom suit in Spiderman 3 looks like it will be from an earth-based science experiment as it was in the Unlimited version of Spider Man.

My theory about this is that a movie that contends not only that multiple Gods exist, but that they are really big stocky aliens in weird hats is just begging for a religious boycott.  It's better to just keep the controversy to the perennial Gay subtext, and leave the Gods out of it.

BUT--I was going to title this post "Why it won't happen" until I checked my favorite cheat sheet on Marvel movie projects and noticed that the Silver Surfer is being introduced in 2007, and Thor is supposed to happen in 2009.  So I guess we'll see.

*Practically the same thing, in this Kirby-inspired universe.

(is 3fingerspointback)

24

^ 13

Thilliness

stevetherobot.

Wed Jul 05, 2006 at 01:23:29 PM EST

5.00 (obnoxious, obnoxious)

The thunder god went for a ride upon his favourite filly. 'I'm Thor,' he cried. And the horse replied, 'You forgot your thaddle, thilly!'

17

^ 13

Re: Why I'm unsure it will happen.

humorlesscretin.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 11:53:34 PM EST

none

So the Phoenix becomes the name given to a part of Jean Grey's subconcious mind, and the Mutant vaccine came only from Earth scientists.

Well, the Phoenix Force is a bit of a handful to explain.  The vaccine's a bit less explaining to do, but it would make a mess of things.

The origin story of the Venom suit in Spiderman 3 looks like it will be from an earth-based science experiment as it was in the Unlimited version of Spider Man.

Joe Moviegoer is better off.  I liked Secret Wars just fine, but no non-geek needs to know that bit of trivia.  Not to mention that the Beyonder gets just a wee bit outside Spidey's usual reach.  I'd be just as happy with a quick nod to the fans... "Secret Wars" as a movie marquee listing or "Beyonder's Pizza, The Cosmic Pie" or some such rather than having to explain Secret Wars to my non-comic-geek friends.

My theory about this is that a movie that contends not only that multiple Gods exist, but that they are really big stocky aliens in weird hats is just begging for a religious boycott.

Agreed.  Marvel's perfectly happy to rake in money and generate just enough controversy.  A full-on religious boycott could be bad for business.

my favorite cheat sheet on Marvel movie projects

Ooo, that is nice.  Thanks!  Now I'm looking forward to Magneto and the next Ultimate Avengers DVD.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

10

^ 6

With Vincent DiNofrerio

maml.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 12:40:27 PM EST

none

Vince already played Thor in "Adventures in Babysitting", I think with some working out he'd be ready to play the part again.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

4

Superman, big deal...

geekybob.

Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 01:55:10 PM EST

2.00 (brilliant)

I can't wait to see Vinnie Chase in Aquaman.



I'm not a Democrat, I'm a liberal. Democrats go to meetings...

9

Unbreakable

permazorch.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 09:41:32 AM EST

none

It's the best superhero movie ever made. You never see Lex Luthor struggle for his villainy.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

18

^ 9

Re: Unbreakable

humorlesscretin.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 12:09:40 AM EST

none

I don't know about "best superhero movie ever" but it's damn good, certainly the best adult superhero movie ever made.  Well worth a rental or purchase.  

Go.  Get.  Watch.  TnT will be here when you get back.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

14

Superman comic recommendations

3fingerspointback.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 04:04:02 PM EST

none

Superman isn't my favorite comic book superhero (currently Spiderman), but I have found a few interpretations of the character recently that I've liked:

Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely are doing an awesome job in the new All Star Superman series.  Probably the best one of these recommendations if you just want a quick, light story that doesn't cost much, each issue is almost completely self-contained, and doesn't require a lot of context  (but does keep the in-jokes).

If you want something more epic, the 12-issue For Tomorrow series by Brian Azzarello and Jim Lee is a good one to pick up, following the old "superhero torn by externalization of his inner conflict" vein.  Azzarello also did a great job on the 5-issue Lex Luthor: Man of Steel with Lee Bermejo.

I also really liked Red Son by Mark Miller and Dave Johnson, which created an alternate universe in which Superman's ship crashed in Soviet Russia, and he grew up fighting for the ideals of the USSR instead of the USA.

(is 3fingerspointback)

15

^ 14

Red Son

permazorch.

Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 06:07:38 PM EST

none

This is easily my favorite Superman comic. For the record, I'm more of a Batman kind of fellow, and Frank Miller is easily my favorite, particularly "Year One".

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

20

^ 15

batman

kermit.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 05:05:06 AM EST

none

definitely my fave comic but they movies have been hit and miss. really liked the spiderman movies though.
ign has some good comic reviews and articles. check out a few of the batman titles in this feature, they are a really good read
http://comics.ign.com/articles/624/624619p1.html

19

^ 14

Re: Superman comic recommendations

humorlesscretin.

Tue Jul 04, 2006 at 12:20:05 AM EST

none

Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely are doing an awesome job in the new All Star Superman series.

If only Quitely could draw more than 2 panels a day.  I didn't think Morrison had it in him, but this is a fun little book.  Amazing what you can do when you don't have 60+ years of continuity to weigh you down.

I also really liked Red Son by Mark Miller and Dave Johnson

That's Millar.  I really need to read that one of these days.  And For Tomorrow and Lex Luthor: MoS.

And while I'm looking things up on Amazon, does TnT have an Amazon affiliate thing set up yet?

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

28

^ 14

Eh

tomc.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 12:24:08 AM EST

none

Superman isn't my favorite comic book superhero

Same here.  I'll probably see the movie on DVD, though.  Superman is just too goody-goody for me.  Batman, a little too self-absorbed.

Now, Powers, those are superheroes I can relate to...with a movie in the works from Sony Pictures.

31

^ 28

Superman is all about inhibition

JimmyHavok.

Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:53:17 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Superman is just too goody-goody for me.

Superman is so super that it takes incredible self-control for him to even share the same space as humans.  Humans are like blobs of jelly that could be destroyed if he even moves too fast near them.

So his whole existence is one of total inhibition.  If he hadn't been raised by midwesterners, he'd be a super-villain just by reason of existing.  For me, that's the fascination of the character.

A few writers have managed to touch on the subject, but mostly it just exists in the background.  Alan Moore covered the territory of "what if Superman wasn't so inhibited?" in MiracleMan.

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