SciTech

The Big Dig Bug

Thalia.

Posted to SciTech on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 12:48:32 PM EST. RSS.

Not only has the Big Dig cost almost $15 Billion dollars, and countless frustrated hours in traffic, it has now claimed a life.  

A woman was killed Monday night when 12 tons of concrete fell from a tunnel ceiling on her car in the Big Dig tunnels.  Subsequent investigation indicates other significant problems which may cost millions more to fix, in addition to once again slowing traffic to a crawl.

The Big Dig is, according to some a monument to bad politics and greed.  Others have suggested that it was based on misrepresenting the costs.

Once again, traffic is snarled, and the potential cost not only to overhaul the tunnel system but to settle the lawsuit by the woman killed will likely cost Boston and Massachusetts billions.

Tags: politics, Boston, fraud, waste, accidents (all tags)

This story: 37 comments (7 from subqueue)
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4

Drop Ceiling?....no thanks

WMK.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:25:30 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute, astute)

"He said a steel "tieback" that had held a 40-foot section of ceiling over eastbound Interstate 90 gave way, letting the concrete slabs loose."

So I have been wondering why would you make a suspended cieling out of long strips of concrete?  If it aint structural should it weigh a bazillion pounds and dangle by steel 'threads' over everyones heads? If it is for appearance only then why not make it from some kind of lightweight panel/ corrugated fiber glass/stamped sheet metal and give it a tough as nails frame/suspension system? If panels need replacing or the structural 'guts' of the tunnel need inspecting - wouldn't light weight moveable ceiling construction be a better choice?

Does anyone have a link to a rationale for a concrete drop ceiling in the first place - maybe an example of where it has been used elsewhere and why?

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

6

Cost over runs! Inferior work! No way...

maml.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 02:55:36 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

The Big Dig wasn't such a bad idea.  In fact, it was basically a great idea.  But big public works projects attract the worst kind of corruption.  From every worker knowing that going slow earns more money than going fast, to the guys at the top in Betchel knowing they're bottom line looks better if there's a little less concrete in the concrete mixer.

I don't know if anything can ever be done about it.  If the government weren't so cozy with big business and actually sued the crap out of companies more often, it would help.  But most of the time companies are willing to run that risk, as they often make more on corruption than they lose in the courts.  Draconian application of the law might help too.  Maybe somebody ought to be facing manslaughter for the tunnel collapse?

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

11

^ 6

Manslaughter charges

fader.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 03:52:45 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

That's been kicked around a lot in the press for the past few days:

"Attorney General Tom Reilly... is investigating whether manslaughter charges should be filed against anyone responsible for the 12 tons of falling ceiling panels..."

25

^ 11

Re: Manslaughter charges

gaspacho.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:36:31 PM EST

3.00 (informative)

Just some juicy background info for non-MA Treelings:

AG Tom Reilly is currently one of the Dems running for MA Gov in Nov, and is sure to leverage this as much as possible.  Especially since ex-Clinton staffer/Ameriquest Boardmember Deval Patrick had most of the momentum before last week.

Meanwhile, our well-coiffed Gov. Mitt, paving the way for his presidential run in 2008, is just as sure to try and take control of the investigation for his own political benefit.  Recall that he ran back in 2002 on his reputation as the 'fixer' for the Utah Olympics... so I'm sure this second chance to re-affirm this rep on the public stage is not lost on him or his team.

Even in disaster, the Big Dig is doomed to be a political football.

same old bitter taste!

15

^ 6

One solution

Shadarr.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 07:20:02 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

One thing I wish more public projects would do is put the burden of cost overruns on the contractor, not the city.  Otherwise the contractor has no incentive to come in under budget, and every incentive to bid far lower than the real projected cost and then bill for the overrun later.  It's not a perfect solution, because the contractor could just declare bankruptcy and never finish the project, but it's better than just handing them a key to the city vault.

--
Bite the hand.

16

^ 15

Philadelphia Did That

thefadd.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 07:47:51 PM EST

4.00 (informative, informative)

Philadelphians will easily recall the great infamy that was construction of "The Blue Route" (I-476 in South Eastern PA, the expressway between I-95 and I-276/the PA Turnpike). I don't think we even need to recall it -- I think it's embedded in our frontal lobes. In fact, the thing is called "The Blue Route" specifically because that's what color they use on maps to denote roads that are under construction. Can you really top that? The thing took 23 years to build, which comes out to far less than 5 miles per year. After this debacle, however, then-mayor now-Governor Ed Rendell got tougher with contractors, making a lot of their compensation contingent on hitting specific deadlines. What a concept.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

27

^ 16

The Blue Route isn't called that ...

MayorBob.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 02:03:42 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

... because that was the color used to denote roads under construction.  In fact, when plans for the I-476 Mid-County Expressway were being drawn up, there were several route plans considered.  One identified by blue tape on a map was selected over three other choices: the Red Route, the Yellow Route, and the Green Route.  A complete article on the 21 mile connector can be found here complete with actual chronology of the construction effort.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

10

The Bold and the Timid

Petronius.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 03:51:19 PM EST

4.66 (interesting, informative, interesting)

The Big Dig has been controversial for years because of its titanic cost overruns and the dificulty of its construction. However, I wonder if all that trouble is adding to the horror of the recent accident.

As this site shows, the building of the new road system was an engineering nightmare. The geology of the area is basically mush. The job had to be done while the life of the city went on above, dictating a sort of arthroscopic approach to construction. The traffic flow of the city is still dictated by decisions made back before the American Revolution. To meet these challenges, the engineers did things like build concrete tubes on shore and sink them in the harbor ooze, linking them into a new road tunnel. Another segment was made by digging a horizontal hole and using hydraulic rams to push the concrete tunnel structure further down the line, a building method not unlike one used in WW2.

What I'm trying to get to here is that the difficulties of the job dictated many of the overruns. However, these engineering marvels may or may not have anything to do with the problem that caused the death of that unfortunate woman. A fast, easy, non-controversial underpass can also have bad bolts. And those bolts could have been introduced by the very last contractor in the supply chain.

My fear is that the sum of the Big Dig's troubles will put people off of big, long term projects, even when they are called for. New York City has been working on Water Tunnel #3 since 1970, and has 14 years to go. Chicago's Deep Tunnel flood control project has been digging for a quarter of a century, and won't be complete for another decade. By these measures the Big Dig is just a pup.

20

Federal dollars

profwhat.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:09:58 AM EST

4.66 (brilliant, astute, astute)

This local project should never have received federal dollars.  The big dig might, technically speaking, be part of an interstate highway, but come on: it is 3.5 miles long, and runs from one part of Massachusetts to another part of Massachusetts.  It was funded because it was the late 80s and some of the most powerful members of Congress were Ted Kennedy and Tip O'Neill.  I read in wikipedia that Reagan vetoed the initial spending bill for this thing, but Congress eventually overrode the veto.  Thanks, Congress.

As a rule, when I spend my own money, I'm very careful to make sure I get value in return.  But when I spend someone else's money, a hundred other priorities come first.  When the federal government failed to adequately supervise how that cash was spent, more and more money was wasted.

Here is what should have happened: If Boston had tied its car traffic up into so many knots that it truly felt the only solution was to give its commuters a $15 billion tunnel named after Tip O'Neill, then Boston should have kicked up all of the necessary cash itself.  Lots of old American cities have antiquated street layouts, difficult geography, and heavy traffic.  Traffic sucks in San Francisco and New York, too, but we don't build vast underground passageways for those cities.  We tend to make those cities (or at least their states) pay to fix their own problems.  And those "fixes" don't have to be building expensive subterranean roads, either; they can invest in mass transit, or eliminate the need to commute in the first place by promoting residential development near businesses.

1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechtel

permazorch.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:05:39 PM EST

4.50 (interesting, informative)

Bechtel, Bechtel...
Why does that name sound so familiar?

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

7

I Wanna Debate This Poll

thefadd.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 03:01:47 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

I'm sorry but New York far and away has the worst traffic. You just don't notice it as much because being in a car is less necessary. I grew up in Philadelphia, have lived in LA six years and drove a lot in DC and New York. I'll admit that what limitted driving experience I had in Boston was absolutely hellish (totalled my first car there, in fact) but New York is simply other worlds above in terms of impassable traffic in American cities. I mean, when you can sit literally in one place for hours on end that's just incomparable. ...of course this accident isn't going to make it any easier there.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

9

^ 7

Poll debate

koos.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 03:35:08 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I'll give you this: New York wins hands down the "high number of people, smallest amount of space" traffic award. And, sure, some routes can last FOREVAH.

But Boston just has the unbeatable duo of horrible roads (now with more killing!) and horrible drivers (Massholes, for reals... only Providence drivers score lower on road tests!). And although New York has more people going in and out, like you said, there are better alternatives... you don't NEED a car in New York like you do in Boston (i.e.: if you're going North-South in Boston, forget about the T).

{ k }

12

^ 9

Red line in the house!

marduk.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 05:04:47 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

if you're going North-South in Boston, forget about the T
???

tnt needs to track moderation. stats page!

19

^ 12

Damn!

koos.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 09:03:11 AM EST

5.00 (informative)

Obviously, I should have been more specific. I MEANT "crossing the river not at the downtown junction".

Sure, if you live in Alewife/Somerville/Cambridge you can head downtown real fast (I used to love my Alewife to South Station commute, even pre-iPod). The Red Line is underground and awesome (except for those rare instances when it, you know, shuts down for no reason for about half an hour and the conductor doesn't tell you what's going on and you start to think some "Lord of the Flies" sort of thoughts). You can even make it to Braintree if you have an hour (but... WHY!?!?). However, try and get to Fenway, Boston University, Northeastern/MFA, Boston College in half an hour or less. That is what I meant by North/South (not the South East/North West route that the Red Line runs).

My complaint comes from living on Comm Ave in Brighton/Allston (in order to get to school) for three years, and having friends that lived in, say, Davis Square. That's about 4.3 miles, or 10 minutes by car (which we didn't often have), sans traffic of course.

We tried a cab once and it cost $30 (see traffic, supra). That is absurd. And when we did have a car, we'd be able to make it in about 15-20 minutes, but when we got home we'd search for parking sometimes for up to an hour (depending on the time, day of the week and season... as Brighton is completely overrun with the college kiddies Friday and Saturday nights from August to May each year). And I'd have bought a parking spot, but I don't have a trust fund, and I like all my organs.

We could take the above-ground monstrosity that is the Green Line, stopping at every light and then again at every other block to pick up lazy and/or drunk college kids, heading (slooooowly) all the way downtown, only to have to wait (often up to 30 minutes) to switch trains and take the ten minute trip to Davis. Overall, we clocked it multiple times taking us more than an hour and a half to get 4.3 miles.

And please don't even mention the busses. They're a joke in Boston. If they aren't half an hour late they're half an hour early and two busses are doing some sort of gas-wasting, traffic-inducing caravan of inefficiency.

Put it this way: I live in a different state now, and have a parking space of my own, so now I have a car. When I visit my friends in Boston it only takes me about 45 minutes to get there door-to-door, sometimes even stopping for gas/snacks. That is about half the time it used to take WHEN I LIVED IN THE SAME CITY!!! I live 54.3 miles away from them now. That's an additional 50 miles! In half the time! (Note: I also pay less than half in rent, my parking is free, my utilities are paid for, and everything else (groceries, gas) are about 10% less - plus the people are super-nice(r)).

{ k }

22

^ 19

The cab-T gap

fader.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 02:17:21 PM EST

none

We tried a cab once and it cost $30

Fortunately, the T is planning yet another fare hike.  They'll close this price gap soon, I'm sure.

</snark>

23

^ 19

You should have got a bike...

maml.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 02:50:41 PM EST

none

Bike is definitely the best way around Boston.  A decent bike will run you like $350, way less than the insurance bill for a car in Boston.

The 57 bus up and down Comm Ave beats the green line by about 10 minutes, and then you can switch at Kenmore where you have a 66% chance of catching a C or D line train instead of the B you passed in the bus (you did have a combo pass, right?) and get to Park street then wait for the red line.

I used to do this all the time, going from the Harvard Ave./Comm ave area (you know, near Blanchards) to Porter Square.  

When I wanted to go to Harvard Square, the 66 bus could get me there in the same time as a car, since my waiting time for the bus equalled or was less than trying to park. I often walked, as it was only a couple miles. The 66 also took me to work in the Longwood Medical area.

I actually can't imagine complaining about the public transit in Boston.  I've never seen better.  Moving out to the 'burbs might work for you.  Fine.  Density means moving a little slower, and as long as I'm not stuck behind the wheel of a car, that's OK with me.  

I moved to Seattle recently.  I like walking to the super market, a dozen restaurants, being within three miles of 5 nice playgrounds for my daughter, plus the zoo.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

24

^ 23

My solution/final thoughts on the T...

koos.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 03:26:02 PM EST

none

  1. I bought a skateboard (hybrid length) instead of a bike. It was a little easier to fit in my locker than a Schwinn. Plus, a skateboard is "cool" and "punk rock" (I had always wanted to learn how to use one, and it was really my last chance to act like a twelve year old).

  2. Of course, neither a bike nor a skateboard was useful in the long, slushy New England winter - particularly because Boston drivers drive like they are on crack laced with more crack, and the sidewalks aren't cleared off for seven months of the year, so I'd walk to school and make my friends drive to visit me on the weekends (I'm a dick, I guess). Or, most often, we'd meet up downtown.

  3. As for complaining about the T... I HATE HATE HATE the Green Line, and any rational person who is forced to use it does, too. Particularly when you have to stand out in the snow and rain under absolutely NO COVERAGE to catch a disease-infested, screeching, crawl-mobile. I've used RIPTA, the NY Subway and the DC Metro, and with the exception of the Red Line, the MBTA system isn't the best of anything compared to each of those systems. So, yes, 1/4 of the MBTA rocks, but that only really helps 1/4 of the Boston public (or, alternatively, 100% of the public, but only 1/4 of the time).

  4. The 57 (or the old A Line, as I remember it), is good for getting to where the A Line went, but not really for people who live past Packard's Corner (the Super 88) on Comm Ave. For instance,  I couldn't pick it up until I had already walked half-way to school, and I wasn't going to pay $1.50 for the rest of the walk. The only good North/South bus in the area I lived in was the 66 (or the 666, as my wife called it). Its sporadic-osity (sporadic-ness?) knew no bounds, often taking up to an hour and a half to show up, despite its alleged "every ten minutes" schedule.

  5. The only time I ever bought a combo pass was the year I lived on route 9 and had to take a bus (the 69, I think) to Kenmore to take the Green Line to Park to take the Red Line to South Station to walk a mile to work. That SUCKED.

  6. I too love walking around my new hometown (of Providence). A mile each way to work and I've gotten through the whole city! And every once in a while I'll come home and be sitting on the sofa, reading a comic book or watching a movie (at a reasonable volume!), and it'll occur to me that I won't ever be accosted by the evil screeching of the wheels of the T again. And I smile, and sigh contentedly, like a little girl in love.

{ k }

14

^ 12

Yeah really

maml.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 06:14:48 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Going South on the Redline is the fastest trip on the T.  On my bike I could get around downtown, and the north and West suburbs faster than the T most of the time.  In fact, at rush hour the bike was faster than driving.  But the redline into the south suburbs covers a lot of ground very fast, it's tough to beat.

Though parking a car in Dorchester was a lot easier than parking in Allston, and you're less likely to get randomly vandalized there.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

3

having seen it from both sides

koos.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:20:15 PM EST

3.50 (interesting, interesting)

Having seen it from both sides (constructed and not constructed), I feel qualified to say the following things about the Big Dig:

  1. I'm glad I don't live in Boston anymore (GO SOX!)
  2. The Big Dig is still better than what was there before
  3. #2 being the case, I still say it would have been more cost effective to fix the pot holes, paint lines on the roads, increase the MBTA lines and service, and actually enforce the traffic laws in the city. That, and build about a bajillion more parking garages near the outer-most T line stops

{ k }

2

Waste, waste, waste...

David Flores.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:11:52 PM EST

3.14 (funny, interesting, brilliant)

What a waste of taxpyaer dollars! Do you realize that all this money we've foolishly poured into the U.S. economy could have paid for two and a half months of War in Iraq!

5

^ 2

6 of one...

gerrymander.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 02:39:01 PM EST

3.50 (interesting, illiterate)

And with a similar cost in American lives, as it turns out.

8

^ 5

gerry...

koos.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 03:29:58 PM EST

none

it appears to me that you trying to say that only one American dies every two point five months in the "iraqacle" (Iraq debacle... what? I can't make up words, too?).

'Cause that is factually inaccurate. And sad.

{ k }

13

^ 8

"You had one bloody job to do!"

gerrymander.

Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 05:10:51 PM EST

none

koos, relax. I was just riffing on David's digression. Woefully inaccurate statistics I'll cop to -- but that won't stop my weird sense of humor from considering setting up BigDigBodyCount.net.

17

^ 13

BigDigBodyCount.net

humorlesscretin.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 12:40:18 AM EST

none

If you do it, don't forget the "stickers" with realtime update counters... you never know when another 12 ton concrete ceiling will fall on someone, and your legions of fans will want to know immediately.  I'd put one in my LJ info.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

18

^ 13

BigDigBodyCount.net

koos.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 08:12:33 AM EST

none

AWE INSPIRING.

{ k }

PS:: you still want that CD?

21

^ 18

CD, si!

gerrymander.

Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 12:34:38 PM EST

none

koos, I most certainly do want that CD. And now that my own PC woes are over (stupid faulty motherboard), I can get one to you in return. I'll look for you in chat, and we can trade mailing info there.

Side note to Ozymandias: I should have the CD I promised you in the mail tomorrow, 7/20.

34

^ 21

Re: CD, si!

eduardo.

Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 10:57:30 PM EST

1.00 (obnoxious)

I think there's a bug in TnT that causes lame private messages to show up in threads...

26

winter?

maml.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 01:47:22 PM EST

none

You make valid points, and Providence is a lovely (and much smaller) city.  My dad lived out on Branch Ave. for a while, which is kind of the ass end of Providence and it was still pretty nice.

Maybe a skateboard doesn't work in the winter, but a my bike got me around through three Boston winters.  And bikes are way more punk than long boards.

The first trick was to be more cracked out than the drivers.  

The second trick is to dress appropriately.

The third trick was to spend half the value of your bike on locks for your bike.  (and then someone stole my chain.  CURSE YOU BICYCLE CHAIN STEALING MOTHERFUCKER.)

The blue and orange lines also are below ground and move quickly.  Really it's only the Green (oldest subway in America) which moves at a crawl.  All the rats in the subway stations got to me sometimes, but...

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

28

^ 26

erg, wrong button.

maml.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 04:36:53 PM EST

none

This was supposed to be a reply to koos.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

29

^ 26

Re: winter?

koos.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:24:07 PM EST

none

Yeah I have some crazy hardcore biking friends in Boston (they did that anti-AIDS ride a bunch before it went bankrupt), so I agree it can be pretty punk (and at the same time... Lance Armstrong/Jan Ullrich vs. Tony Hawk/Bam Margera?!? You know who I'm picking!)

Although, also, I have to admit that long boards are more hippie than punk (but still cool! please?).

Like I said, mostly I walk. Especially now that I live at the top of a very steep hill.

As for the T... perhaps I just had to live with the Green Line too long, but  - hate!!! (except for the Red Line, which, as I said, I love). I'd also have loved if the Silver Line had been active when I was woking on the South End. Or when I needed to get to Logan.

{ k }

30

^ 29

Who's Lance?

maml.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 05:35:29 PM EST

none

Bike's don't have a big name punk icon, but the urban commuter/messenger world is suffused with punk attitude*, and then there's BMX and the whole Downhill/4 cross/Freeride aspect of Mountain biking.

Tony Hawk and Lance Armstrong seem eerily similar to me.  They both are kind of laid back acting, but are insanely focussed in the development of a physical skill.  They carry themselves very similarly and talk the same way.  Plus they have both done a lot as spokesmen for their sport, they're both dads...

Lance hasn't had a video game yet, but somehow I don't think the le Tour video game would be that interesting.  "Look, I'm drafting in the middle of the peleton for three hours!"

*except the "I obey all the rules just like a car." crowd, who are still DIY to the bone.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

31

^ 30

Re: Who's Lance?

koos.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 06:18:07 PM EST

none

"Look, I'm drafting in the middle of the peleton for three hours!"

And yet, my father-in-law can watch, rapt and excited, every damn night.

AND HE DOESN'T EVEN OWN A BIKE!!!

{ k }

32

^ 30

punx on wheelz

lynnx.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 07:00:57 PM EST

none

well, the tour is not really the place to look for bike punks (although today's ride by landis was a thing to behold). you gotta go to the source: bike messengers. and if you still want to throw in the competitive racing factor, there is the beauty that is the alleycat (which is a race that relies on the skills of the bike messenger and could be described as a no-holds-barred scavenger hunt on a bike). boston had a big one this past weekend (results here), as did central connecticut, the weekend long "kings of new england alleycat" (i might add that i came in 5th and had an enormous amount of fun).

the artist formerly known as debutante

33

^ 32

Re: punx on wheelz

maml.

Thu Jul 20, 2006 at 09:39:01 PM EST

none

Congrats.

I would have loved to do a Boston Allycat, but I wasn't hooked up into the scene so much when I was there.  I don't know how out-of-towners even compete, given the peculiarities of Boston's streets.

Now I have a child, and fear death or maiming a lot more.  Plus I live in Seattle which has many more hills.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

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