Business

If You Wanna Be Happy For The Rest Of Your Life, Never Make A Career Woman Your Wife

MayorBob.

Posted to Business on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 11:40:20 AM EST. RSS.

Forbes editor Michael Noer would never be as shallow as Jimmy Soul, who suggested that looks are the predictor for marital success.  No, but what Noer did suggest in a recent piece was that, if you're looking to marry and settle down, guys should avoid career women.

Noers' point is that career women are more likely to cheat and divorce.  According to him they are less likely to have kids and more likely to resent the kid's existence once burdened with providing for him or her.  That, plus marriage is stressful enough, so why should a guy committed to a career opt to strike up a marriage with someone with whom he'll just end up competing with or begrudging meeting her professional demands and needs?  He cites social research he claims make his point for him - everything from studies that say most women are happier with the male being the primary breadwinner to husbands made unhappy and threatened by wives who outearn them.  He sees one of the major threats to a stable, long-term marriage with a career woman that she might be liable to meet someone else just a bit more interesting than you are.  According to one expert Noers quotes in his piece:

"The work environment provides a host of potential partners and individuals frequently find themselves spending a great deal of time with these individuals."
To which Elizabeth Corcoran responds, in counterpoint fashion, there may be good reasons why women trade those zeroes in for heroes.  She observes that maybe it might be the fact that there are men, who once they get married, opt to vegetate rather than grow in the relationship.  She also scoffs at the Noers' notion that there is less specialization in a marriage between persons with separate careers.  She points to her 18 years of marriage and says she found things she's good at and likes to do and so did her husband and these made for a more interesting union.

The response to Noers' and Corcoran's pieces on Forbes contains shout outs to Corcoran (primarily from female readers) for pointing out that gleaning facts from a few socially conservative slanted studies does not a solid theory make.  One particular response, takes on Noers point-by-point in lucid fashion.  There are also responses which characterize Noers as a truth teller and Corcoran as a raving raving Feminazi (primarily from male readers).  Slate's Jack Shafer asks what exactly about Noers' piece is so outlandish as to get feminists in an uproar?  The one thing Shafer does cite as a central flaw in Noers argument from the standpoint of feminists.  Noers defines career women as having the following characteristics: "a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than (US)$30,000 a year."  Where feminist critics of Noers see a deep bias against working women, Shafer sees the possibilities of freedom for career women, finding themselves in an unhappy marriage, better able to "afford to get out of an unhappy marriage than their sisters."  But, criticism for the piece isn't restricted merely to Noers.  There are those who would like to know why Forbes would "print one of the most sexist, chauvinistic articles in the history of respectable periodicals and then republish it, but as a debate?"

Tags: marriage, wife, career (all tags)

This story: 24 comments (9 from subqueue)
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3

He's Absolutely Correct

keta.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 01:12:14 PM EST

4.80 (brilliant, funny, funny)

I once had a partner who was smart, well-spoken, ambitious, beautiful, and adventuresome.  But I knew that, being a career woman, she would lie, cheat, ignore our future children, and never, ever lift a finger to do housework.  So I dumped her career-minded ass.

I now live with a woman with the IQ of a gnat.  She sprinkles her conversations with "like," desperately wants children but is unsure where they come from, works part-time at the coffee bar, and her greatest ambition is to finish the Danielle Steele novel she started about three years ago.

Bog's balls, I am one lucky fella.

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Re: He's Absolutely Correct

tomc.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 06:24:23 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

Well, sure, but what's the sex like?

1

Manufactured Controversy?

coquito.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:25:20 PM EST

3.00

In regards to the original article: I got an e-mail yesterday afternoon from an acquaintance complaining about what she felt was the "misogyny" of the piece. I'll put myself out on a limb as a possibly insensitive male and say that I didn't see that. It's been altered somewhat now, but the original article sounded to me like it was making these comments tongue-in-cheek. As an example, in the now defunct slideshow that ran with the article, the last line of the graf that describes the "dirtier house" study said something like "This problem can be alleviated if you just learn to use a broom" (Remember the article is speaking to the men here).


The data is debatable, I assume: I haven't read enough about the studies to say either way. But if they are correct, they are not in and of themselves misogynist. And since I don't think it was presented as a serious, or perhaps I should say earnest, warning to men not to marry "career women," I'm tempted to think that the re-posted "he said/she-said" article was put up to capitalize on some initial buzz or hate mail fired off by people who weren't reading it very closely or let their insecurities overcome their sense of humor.

Now with caps!

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

Thalia.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 02:46:06 PM EST

5.00

The data is cherry-picked and not particularly well.  For example, it turns out that higher educated people have fewer children.  How exactly this translates to "if you marry a career woman she won't give you the kids you want" remains a mystery.

I failed to see any tongue in cheek aspect of the article.  It actually said "correlation isn't causation" at the very end, but only with respect to the suggestion that higher educated people have more stable marriages.

Thalia

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

coquito.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 03:17:35 PM EST

none

I went back to re-read the part about children, and the reference to that study was taken out. Given that, I can't speak to the tone of what he said, 'cause it isn't there. As for tongue-in-cheek, it all seems to have been stripped away. The one example I gave is gone - it seems to me they're playing up this "he said / she said" thing to the hilt now, with even Noer's photo making him look like a smug jerk.

Now with caps!

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

Thalia.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 04:04:19 PM EST

5.00

Yes, they're doing damage control as fast as they can.  They'll keep removing pieces, just you watch.  

The next part that I expect to go is the part about how working women are more likely to have affairs.  It's quite true that people with independent incomes are more likely to cheat, but whether you get that income through an inheritance, a trust fund, daddy, or working is completely irrelevant.  So blaming the higher incidence of affairs on "career gals" is a stretch.

Remember that this article originally was without the companion article by a woman.  It was not tongue in cheek, and it made perfectly clear to me that Forbes does not consider me a customer.  I shall oblige their wishes & never subscribe again.

Thalia

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

keta.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 04:14:14 PM EST

none

I shall oblige their wishes & never subscribe again.

Huh.  I never noticed the bit in the article where they stated career women were also more likely to cancel their husband's magazine subscriptions.

I kid, Thalia, I kid.  I too think it's reprehensible how Forbes has handled this entire clusterfuck.  They got caught publishing a nasty, narrow-minded piece, and rather than face the fire they try to spin it into something it never was.

Accountability is so passe.

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

Thalia.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 04:23:41 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

My husband can't do anything.  The poor dear is depressed that I make more money, dealing with a dirty house, and is sick because I'm not there to "take care of him and buffer his work stress."  I'm sure he's also stunned we got married and had kids & expecting me to have an affair any time now.  Which allows me to cancel his subscription to Forbes.  {evil laugh}  We career women are vicious.

Thalia

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

ms sue.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 07:27:49 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

We career women are vicious

I prefer "gals," but then I guess "vicious" wouldn't work as well, would it?

I'm still amazed that anyone uses the expression "career women/gals/ladies/whatever" anymore.

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Then there's only one thing to do next.

MayorBob.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 06:11:49 PM EST

none

Cheat on him and divorce him.  Unfulfilled expectations can also bring on a king hell case of depression.

 

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

coquito.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 10:59:14 PM EST

none

Yes, they're doing damage control as fast as they can.  They'll keep removing pieces, just you watch.  

That wasn't my take on the change, but maybe I'm wrong. My wife actually said the same, that this was damage control. I found the newly edited piece to be actually worse sounding than the original, and it was my impression that that was done on purpose, to stoke the fires of controversy. I don't see the rebuttal as any kind of mea culpa on the part of Forbes, just more hot air to fan the flames (apologies for the mixed metaphor). But hell, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the editors at Forbes really did knowingly let a misogynist earnestly warning men not to marry career women show up on its website and maybe they really are trying to cover their asses now, but the cynic in me still harbors the suspicion that this is a case of trying to milk unintended outrage for all the click-throughs its worth.

Now with caps!

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

stevetherobot.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:02:20 AM EST

none

I shall oblige their wishes & never subscribe again

Be sure and let them know why you are not subscribing, otherwise it would be a bit pointless.

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

Thalia.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 12:14:07 PM EST

none

Letter to the editor written & sent.  We'll see if it gets printed.  I give it bad odds.  Especially because I don't attack the tone of the article, but the selective & incorrect citations.

Thalia

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

thefadd.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:57:43 PM EST

3.00

It's the definition of internet "fluff" piece designed to spark discussion among people who couldn't post three coherent sentences on this site even if they tried really, really hard.

"Not weighty," would be the first two words to come to my mind and, "enough to bear my consideration when I contemplate meaningful interpersonal relationships," would probably finish the first sentence.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

Thalia.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:01:37 PM EST

4.00

Granted, it was fluff.  But the concept that an Executive Editor (which is what Noer is) of a respected business oriented magazine would consider it an approriate article is still mindboggling.  Of course, Noer had a prior article that compared wives to prostitutes, so we shouldn't have expected much of him.

Thalia

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Re: Manufactured Controversy?

thefadd.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:32:15 PM EST

none

One has to ask. Is the guy married?

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

14

East Asian perspective

Hana Yori Dango.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 07:55:16 PM EST

3.00

I've been busting my ass out here on the Pacific Rim for close to 20 years now, and I want to tell you all I am GLAD my wife was willing, indeed eager, to use her life supporting my career.  In return for her support I love her and our children dearly and support their material and emotional wants as much as possible.

Would this make me a bad man in the eyes of the feminist West? perhaps, but we both get along in life really well, so let them judge...

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Re: East Asian perspective

ms sue.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 09:20:13 PM EST

none

I don't think your perspective is limited to East Asian at all. It is not uncommon to hear similar reports in the U.S. and elsewhere.

I commend you for the love and support you give your wife and children. But unfortunately, that is not always the case. So what happens to the woman who busts her ass supporting her spouse's career, only to find that 20 years later he is a) no longer interested in her and wants out or b) he has the audacity to go and die on her?

If she's lucky, her husband left her with the means to support herself without him, but that is not necessarily the case. She may find that she indeed use her life to support another...and now has to find the means to live in a world that she left behind many years ago.

It's always wise to have a back-up plan.

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Re: East Asian perspective

Thalia.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 11:34:41 PM EST

none

It only makes you a bad person if you don't deal well with the professional women you meet, because you think they should all be at home supporting some man.  If you and your wife make a choice to have her stay at home, and you're both happy with the choice, more power to you.  If you make the choice to have her work and you stay at home, that's cool too.

But I do concur with Ms. Sue.  You & your wife should have a plan on how to deal if you die or lose your job.  Contingency planning is a good thing.

Thalia

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Might I Suggest...

koos.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 at 02:06:33 AM EST

none

"You & your wife should have a plan on how to deal if you die or lose your job."  That's a pretty smart idea, ladies. Might I suggest this*? I hear the profit is good, but make sure the kids don't find out!

{ k }

*Seriously, how great is that show?

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Re: Might I Suggest...

Ozyman.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 02:56:21 PM EST

none

So far, I'm liking this season even better than last!  Can't wait to go home tonight and watch episode 3!

This story: 24 comments (9 from subqueue)
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