Politics

Don't Travel This Year

Thalia.

Posted to Politics on Wed Aug 30, 2006 at 09:23:15 PM EST. RSS.

Two Lodi men found out the hard way that if one of your relatives is accused of terrorism, you can be barred from the country unless you "voluntarily" give up your constitutional rights.  

Two Lodi residents, the uncle and cousin of a man convicted of training in a terrorist camp -- both naturalized U.S. citizens -- have been barred from entering the country because they refused to consent to a second FBI interrogation in Pakistan, and requested attorneys.

The Supreme Court has addressed this before, quite a few years ago in Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958) at 125-126.

"The right to travel is a part of the `liberty' of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. . . . Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, . . . may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values."

The men are now in a legal limbo, and can't return home.

< After the Levees Broke, Big Government Flooded In

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This story: 18 comments (6 from subqueue)
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3

They can return home, they just can't fly back.

Steve Urkel.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 01:24:33 AM EST

1.00 (funny, obnoxious)

A Paki once barred me from his cab because my girlie was smoking*, so in my mind I feel that now we are even.

*I told him this was America, and our women do whatever they damn well please.

4

^ 3

Bah

BAYANI98.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 10:51:15 AM EST

none

Smoking = cancer!

6

^ 3

Re: They can return home, they just can't fly back

Thalia.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 03:23:04 PM EST

none

You're suggesting they should swim?  Because you have the same border checks when you get on a ship as you do when you get on an airplane.

Thalia

8

^ 6

Re: They can return home, they just can't fly back

maml.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 03:53:34 PM EST

none

No, he's trolling, and this case is so eggregious that he had to stoop to racism.

Steve, stick to pie.

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

11

^ 3

Re: They can return home, they just can't fly back

dirigibleman.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 08:46:00 PM EST

none

Every time I read one of these comments, I think of Clayton Bigsby.

9

Some problems take care of themselves

gerrymander.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 04:23:33 PM EST

1.00 (illiterate)

Want to get a better government and still solve the problem? Here's how:

  1. Drop the entry ban on these two. There's no question that these two are citizens, and this is well-settled law.
  2. Increase transparency. Tell every airline and every passenger on flights that those two men are suspected of terrorist ties, are related to an already-convicted terrorist, and have refused to talk to the FBI.

10

^ 9

Fuck Yeah

keta.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 05:19:14 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Bring back lynch mobs!  A noose in every tree!  Vigilante justice!

Fuck, gerry, please tell me your tongue was in your cheek when you wrote that.

14

^ 10

Re: Fuck Yeah

Travis Bickle.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 09:44:15 PM EST

none

But, on the other hand, it might provide some bitchin' inflight entertainment.

You talkin' to me?

1

Well...

Lou.

Wed Aug 30, 2006 at 10:09:06 PM EST

none

"We haven't heard about this happening -- U.S. citizens being refused the right to return from abroad without any charges or any basis,"

Yeah, but we fucking well expected it, didn't we?  Ooops, I guess I should learn to keep quiet, eh?  I want to visit a friend in Colorado in the spring.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

2

^ 1

Re: Well...

Thalia.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 12:43:31 AM EST

none

As long as you don't travel out of the country, you should be fine.  Travel between states is pretty darn hard to restrict.  But don't visit any friends abroad.

Thalia

5

^ 2

Re: Well...

tomc.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 12:18:09 PM EST

none

In fact, one shouldn't even cultivate friends abroad.

15

^ 2

Re: Well...

JimmyHavok.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 at 10:44:27 PM EST

none

Travel between states is pretty darn hard to restrict.

You think?

7

Two if by Sea ...

Jeb Ray Tiede.

Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 03:41:04 PM EST

none

Muhammad Ismail, a 45-year-old naturalized citizen born in Pakistan, and his 18-year-old son, Jaber Ismail, who was born in the United States, have not been charged with a crime.
The legal technicality used to prevent them from returning to the US is that they have been placed on the no-fly list. What if they went on a ship? Is there a no-float list too? What would happen to them if they returned? The feds couldn't charge them with a real crime (otherwise they would have already). So what's the deal here from the legal point of view?

12

^ 7

Re: Two if by Sea ...

stevetherobot.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 09:15:16 AM EST

none

If they are on the no-fly list, they could fly to Mexico on a non-US airline and cross the border by car.

13

^ 12

Re: Two if by Sea ...

Jeb Ray Tiede.

Fri Sep 01, 2006 at 10:38:24 AM EST

none

It's not clear to me whether these two people are being legally barred from entering the U.S. at all, or are they being prevented by use of legal and bureaucratic technicalities.

Federal authorities said Friday that the men, both Lodi residents, would not be allowed back into the country unless they agreed to FBI interrogations in Pakistan.

...

"We haven't heard about this happening -- U.S. citizens being refused the right to return from abroad without any charges or any basis," said Mass, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union.

...

McGregor Scott, the U.S. attorney for California's eastern district, confirmed Friday that the men were on the no-fly list and were being kept out of the country until they agreed to talk to federal authorities.

The quotes imply the former, but nowhere is any precedent or law cited. If these two guys manage to circumvent the system by technically legal means, would they be arrested once at or inside the US border? Seems like an open-and-shut case if it manages to get before a judge, but IANAL.

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