Whatcha gonna do with all them mumps, all them mumps inside America's Heartland?

pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 01:30:03 PM EST. RSS.

Earlier this year an outbreak of mumps emerged in the mid-western states. Although it originated in Iowa, it has since spread to Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Colorado, Minnesota, and Mississippi. The vast majority of cases the 2,600+ cases were reported at the outbreak site (1,900).

Although many of those who came down with this viral infection recalled receiving doses of vaccine when younger, some had not received the recommended and mandated two doses of Merck's MMR (effective against Measles, Mumps and Rubella) prior to coming down with this illness. Luckily, this particular outbreak "is slowing down".

This, and other incidents show how some have chosen to forgo normally mandatory treatments for their children. Unfortunately, this puts not only their offspring at risk, but also the population in general as mass vaccination builds what is referred to as "herd immunity." Vaccines are never 100% effective, but if the pathogen is unable to gain a foothold in the population it is unlikely those few whose vaccines did not "take" will be infected, as long as they are in the vast minority. With more and more parents opting out their children due to fears, hysteria, and rumors bred by discredited research it is likely that future outbreaks of easily preventable diseases will occur.

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Tags: written by pO157, virus, mumps, immunization, outbreak, epidemic, public health, Hip-Hop Headline (all tags)

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19	Got your shots yet? Nameless Cynic. Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 11:21:17 AM EST 5.00 (astute)

There's some evidence that vaccinations might cause some health problems (I'll just steal coquito's link here). But then again, there's the obvious problem that not getting vaccinated raises your chance of getting a different health problem.

How many people have you met who suffered from polio? (I know I've seen pictures of FDR. That about covers it for me.) But nonetheless, some imams in Nigeria preach against polio vaccinations.

I've actually heard that argument before. A Black History Month presentation I went to included a couple of radical viewpoints, including "vaccinations are just another plot by white people to keep the black man down." I never did find out what twisted logic led to that argument, but there it is.

Let's not forget that AIDS is actually a genocidal plot. According to conspiracy theorists, the gays were infected during the hepatitis B vaccine trials back in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The smallpox vaccination has some problems, but somehow, I don't think that this one is something we have to worry about.

(And from the Here's-A-Link-I-Can-Only-Fit-In-Clumsily Department: Here's a brief look at the immunization question.)

Personally, I think that much of the anti-vaccination arguments mostly stem from ignorance. And as long as Bush and company push their anti-science agenda, it's only going to get worse.

(Hey, somebody had to say it's all Bush's fault. And I think it was my turn...)

It's like "Night of the Living Republican." The idiots are right outside, and they want to eat your brain.

22	Vaccinating Thalia. Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 07:20:58 PM EST 5.00 (informative)

My kid has most of his vaccinations, but is at least 6 months behind. Why? Most good pediatricians will tell you not to vaccinate when your kid is already ill. And mine had health problems when he was young... so no vaccinations until he turned 2 and finally got over the flu.

Vaccinations are good, but they are hard on the kid's body. Check out the warnings you get, and you'll see why some parents are reluctant to delibrately expose their children to this: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/vis/vis-mmr.txt

Thalia

22

Re: Vaccinating

ms sue.

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 09:38:55 PM EST

4.50 (brilliant, astute)

Check out the warnings you get, and you'll see why some parents are reluctant to delibrately expose their children to this: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/vis/vis-mmr.txt

I read the link. If any parents are freaked out by these warnings, I would caution them never to read the contraindications that come with just about any medicine or drug.

23

Re: Vaccinating

Thalia.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:13:17 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

It's no accident that I avoid most drugs. I actually bother to read the list of side-effects. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to the risk, but I have a friend with epilepsy and seizures are rather terrifying to me.

Thalia

27

Re: Vaccinating

ms sue.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 07:07:14 PM EST

none

It's no accident that I avoid most drugs.

I avoid them, too, as much as I possibly can, but not when they're necessary. And you and I apparently put vaccines in that latter category. You were absolutely right to wait until your child was healthy and then to make sure that he received the necessary vaccinations.

4	What's causing this? profwhat. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 02:39:12 PM EST 4.00 (interesting, interesting)

At first I thought this was because too many people were unvaccinated, either through lack of access to medical care or through over-educated stupidity about the non-link with autism. But the MMWR links say that 51% of the patients had received two doses of the MMR vaccine. Two percent had received none, and 31% had no documentation.

That suggests that a lack of vaccination is either not the problem, or only a small part of a bigger problem. So what is the problem?

5 4	Re: What's causing this? koos. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 03:22:29 PM EST 3.50 (informative, informative)

As I understand the "herd theory" suggested above explains this. The theory basically says that the less animals in a given population that are vaccinated, the greater the risk is to all of the animals in the population (even the vaccinated ones). So whatever the non-vaccination rate is, the diseased rate would likely be much higher.

What do I know, though?
{ k }

21 4	Re: What's causing this? Thalia. Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 07:11:48 PM EST none

Mutation in the virus, probably. But really, isn't it easier to just blame those nutsy parents who failed to vaccinate their kids?

Thalia

21

Re: What's causing this?

DrCron.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 06:00:53 AM EST

none

no, not mutation, herd immunity lapse. It doesnt take a heck of a lot to allow these horrid pathogens to get a foothold in the populace.

24

Re: What's causing this?

Thalia.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:10:44 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

It appears that more than half of the infected people have been immunized. Either the immunization isn't particularly effective, or something happened to the pathogen.

Thalia

8	Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics wetkarma. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 05:07:55 PM EST 1.00 (illiterate)

Yes indeed discredited research because vaccinations never cause problems.

Oh well..you know..except for the original polio vaccine, which gave some people the disease it was trying to prevent.

And the MMR vaccine which comes with a list of warnings, is known to give you flu and rash like allergic reaction symptoms and is alleged to be associated with autism, IBD and crohn's disease.

Or wait the fact that even after getting "vaccinated" with the MMR shot, 5-10% of people still won't have any immunity, because the vaccination is not "one shot" effective.

I love science, and think vaccines are the bees knees. But the rationale for getting vaccinations has more to do with the good of the masses than the good of YOUR kid. If/when I ever have kids, my decisions will be based on what is good for them - not on what is best for the fellow breeder's brood a block down.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

10 8	Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics JimmyHavok. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 06:22:50 PM EST 5.00 (brilliant, astute, brilliant)

the rationale for getting vaccinations has more to do with the good of the masses than the good of YOUR kid. If/when I ever have kids, my decisions will be based on what is good for them - not on what is best for the fellow breeder's brood a block down.

There you have it folks, the tragedy of the commons. The good of your children is dependent on you and your neighbor worrying about the good of each other's children, and if you don't, then life becomes nasty, brutish and short.

14 8	Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics clambake. Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:01:53 PM EST 4.00 (brilliant)

If/when I ever have kids, my decisions will be based on what is good for them - not on what is best for the fellow breeder's brood a block down.

...and now your kids are all grown up and have those very breeder's down the block as prospective mates to choose from... Oops, now what's good for those folks down the block are directly related to what's good for your own kids!

Don't you wish you had provided vaccinations/education/training/comfort/whatever it is to those people as well as to your own kids?

Or is it ok that your healthy, beautiful, highly educated daughter is now mixing your precious genes with the violent slightly-deformed, illiterate man who sucks up her money and uses to to buy beer and hookers?

It's amazing how often people in society forget that they are, in fact, in a society. In the long run, you are as responsible for the kid down the block as you are for your own kids.

Sure, maybe your children would never mess with those "riff raff" today, and maybe not your grandchildren either, who knows... but do the genetic math, if your line is to prosper, and not just fail someday, then it is guaranteed that eventually (about 30 generations, less than 1000 years) your genes will be mixed in with everyone else currently on the globe today.

14

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:21:29 PM EST

none

You can't be conservative if you're going to take the long view. After all, that means recognizing that things won't always be the same, and yeaterday's solutions won't always be valid.

9 8	Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics WMK. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 06:22:24 PM EST none

Well rest easy and avoid a ... disease-ey

GAMMA RADIATION saves the day HUZZAH!

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jul2006/niaid-25.htm

Basically with modern methods of blasting the living fuck out of 'alive' nasty bugs with radiation until they are totally fer sure DEAD nasty bugs you can still stimulate an immune system to prepare a defense against said bugs in advance. Isn't that great!?

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

11 8	Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics ms sue. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 07:37:32 PM EST none

If/when I ever have kids, my decisions will be based on what is good for them - not on what is best for the fellow breeder's brood a block down.

Besides the fact that this sentiment contradicts your position in another recent thread, I am amazed at the shortsightedness inherent here. I mean, if those breeders a block down all followed suit, well, then....

11

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

wetkarma.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:23:46 AM EST

none

Don't dither around ms sue, point to what I said and illustrate the inconsistency. As it stands I have little idea what you are referring to.

As to the issue of whether the breeders down the block followed suit -- the risk to me and mine would then change, thus warranting a re-evaluation of whether to take the shots.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

12

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:18:28 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Ever heard the term "free rider?"

17

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

socky.

Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 05:20:12 AM EST

none

or indeed, externalities? I'm one of those tedious people who are temporarily or permanently immunocompromised. After three months in a clean room and three months stuck at home the only reason I can travel on public transport now, and that I can go back to work in 4 weeks, is that the vast majority of people in the UK are, thanks to vaccinations, not harbouring measles, mumps, rubella or many other things. Even if you or other pro-pathogen parents aren't bothered by being thought "antisocial" (by principled objection to all things social-ist), I might venture "discourteous".

12

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

ms sue.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:54:23 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

Don't dither around ms sue, point to what I said and illustrate the inconsistency. As it stands I have little idea what you are referring to.

I thought about whether to be explicit, but it would involve going way, way OT here. And I also thought my reference was fairly obvious, but that was clearly bias on my part. So this is the type of situation that cries out for private messaging. I hope we have that soon.

But basically and perhaps indecipherably brief, I found your position regarding informed consent on the What Happens in the Laboratory thread (Post #39), in which you assert your willingness to take a risk with one child to supposedly protect thousands of adults, to be a bit incompatible with your professed concern here for this one child over the good of the "masses."

As to the issue of whether the breeders down the block followed suit -- the risk to me and mine would then change, thus warranting a re-evaluation of whether to take the shots.

With all due respect, this statement is, at best, naive, and at worst, ludicrous. Again, I think you speak from a rarefied perspective that ignores the reality of day-to-day life in a, you know, society.

13

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

wetkarma.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:13:46 PM EST

none

I think you misrepresent/misunderstand my position. The risk in the example I used was a risk that a jury would find that a kid of 5 could give informed consent to allow an adult to have sex with them. Something that I suggested would be extremely unlikely. It isn't about the "good of the masses" its about a fair trial for the individual on trial. This approach is very consistent with the western (our) system of justice which believes that innocent individuals should go free at the risk of allowing some guilty individuals to go free as well.

The risk in this example is the risk that my kid would have a negative reaction to the vaccine
vs. the risk of relying on herd immunity to prevent my kid from acquiring the actual disease.

Nevertheless you are correct that this is best settled via pm. And I'll refrain from expanding on the thought here.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

15

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

ms sue.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:48:11 PM EST

none

I see your point. Your two positions are consistent with each other. I find both of them abhorrent for reasons already stated ad nauseam.

20 8	Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics Nameless Cynic. Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 11:29:51 AM EST none

I like your .sig. "Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell." From Emily Dickinson, right?

You know, Dickinson died from Bright's Disease.

I don't think there's a vaccination for that, but I like the irony.

It's like "Night of the Living Republican." The idiots are right outside, and they want to eat your brain.

1	Re: Whatcha gonna do with all them mumps, all them stevetherobot. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 02:05:58 PM EST none

If we ever have a major outbreak of measles, mumps, or rubella, I think a lot of people are going to reconsider their stance on immunization. I wasn't immunized as a child because of my parent's religious beliefs and I've had just about all of the things that are vaccinated for. I don't remember most of them, but I do remember mumps and it wasn't any fun. I think a large part of the problem with people declining immunizations is due to the success of immunization. People having children today have never experienced the sheer terror people felt about things like polio back in the day.

6 1	FEAR! WMK. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 03:33:52 PM EST 5.00 (brilliant)

The success of past mass vaccination programs reducing the occurrence of what used to be common afflictions leads people to believe they can get away with opting out of vaccinating their offspring today - 'Mumps!? Nobody I ever heard of had the mumps and my kid is afraid of needles so no thanks'. A false sense of security combined with a poor understanding of what is at stake in a parent's decision to vaccinate can easily lead to unvaccinated children.

But you, Robot, know better from personal experience that not getting vaccinated is a dangerous game to play.

I think there are additional reasons that people might be deciding against vaccination.

Autism: there has been a lot of scary talk and legal battles over the years concerning a possible link between vaccines and autism - depending on who you believe you might decide to risk going without vaccination.
Access to Healthcare: not everyone has it, not everyone has a trusted pediatrician offering informed advice about vaccination and children. Many people live their lives DREADING having to see a Doctor because they know it will result in painfully large bills and possible bankruptcy (if you get cured but then are put into the street, what then?).
Mistrust of the Medical Establishment: part of the rubric/argument about access to health care and soaring costs is directed at a 'Doctors are in it for the money, not to help you' meme and 'they don't care just as long as they get to charge you for things you don't really need' the news media routinely runs 'watchdog' pieces asserting this.
Mistrust part 2: 'Doctors are often dangerously incompetent' mega-damages awarded in front page malpractice cases over the years combined with it being an extremely popular theme in fiction/entertainment has led to this widespread belief.
Does the emergency room give immunizations? For those folks without healthcare, this is a valid question regarding their only healthcare provider.

People who lack access or are loathe to use their access to Medical professionals because they are afraid of/can't afford the costs might be a large component of the didn't vaccinate problem. Even if the vaccination plan was made available at low (sometimes no) cost via public health promotions/plans in their community they still might have declined it due to a climate of resentment and distrust towards all things medical.

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

7 6	and IGNORANCE! maml. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 03:39:39 PM EST 4.00

It's pretty sad if people are avoiding immunizing their kids because of the cost, as most poor people can easily get free health coverage for their child. The working poor covered. I know some people with jobs just don't go to the welfare office because of pride or the idea that just because they have a job, they're not qualified. It's too bad, because they're kids suffer

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

2 1	Re: Whatcha gonna do with all them mumps, all them pO157. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 02:12:39 PM EST none

I agree.

It's funny, just the other day I was telling somebody about how our grandchildren will roll their eyes at us for relating for the 67th time about how we (and the rest of the school) all came down with 'Chicken Pox.' The vaccine has only been out for a few years and it's already well on it's way to becoming an old man's disease.

Then again, we will probably be the last generation to suffer through the hell that is shingles. I can't wait.

Spread it on!

3 2	Re: Whatcha gonna do with all them mumps, all them LostBoyJim. Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 02:27:46 PM EST 5.00 (brilliant, astute)

I'm more praying that we have the opportunity to tell our great-neices and nephews about the terror of HIV and AIDS, and watching them roll their eyes.

25 3	Re: Whatcha gonna do with all them mumps, all them Dyolf Knip. Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:02:17 PM EST 5.00 (astute)

Unlikely. Look at the religious right's problems with the HPV vaccine. Try to imagine the uproar over a vaccine that actually does stand a chance of making sex seem safer and thus increasing promiscuity. Especially one still viewed by many as a "gay disease".

Now, a vaccine is only useful when so much of the population is immunized so quickly that the virus literally has nowhere to go, right? Nobody can say for certain until some numbers on immunization rates for HPV start coming in, but I seriously have to wonder just how many Christian whackjobs would pass on getting their kids vaccinated against a horrible disease like HIV.

No, I suspect that HIV/AIDS will take much longer to wipe out than it should, and may even go through a few counter-mutation/counter-vaccination cycles before it's finally gone.

On second thought, perhaps not. HPV is so widespread that vaccination at 18 is virtually useless. But HIV rates are low enough that young adults will be able to ignore their parents' wishes and it will be only marginally less effective. I imagine a lot of colleges will make it a requirement.

Dang, tough call. No matter, I'm with you; definitely looking forward to describing the long-gone world of communicable social diseases to my grandkids.

This story: 33 comments (5 from subqueue)

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pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 01:30:03 PM EST. RSS.

Got your shots yet?

Nameless Cynic.

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 11:21:17 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Vaccinating

Thalia.

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 07:20:58 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

22

Re: Vaccinating

ms sue.

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 09:38:55 PM EST

4.50 (brilliant, astute)

23

Re: Vaccinating

Thalia.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:13:17 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

27

Re: Vaccinating

ms sue.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 07:07:14 PM EST

What's causing this?

profwhat.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 02:39:12 PM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

4

Re: What's causing this?

koos.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 03:22:29 PM EST

3.50 (informative, informative)

4

Re: What's causing this?

Thalia.

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 07:11:48 PM EST

21

Re: What's causing this?

DrCron.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 06:00:53 AM EST

24

Re: What's causing this?

Thalia.

Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:10:44 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

wetkarma.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 05:07:55 PM EST

1.00 (illiterate)

8

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

JimmyHavok.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 06:22:50 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant, astute, brilliant)

8

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

clambake.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:01:53 PM EST

4.00 (brilliant)

14

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:21:29 PM EST

8

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

WMK.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 06:22:24 PM EST

8

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

ms sue.

Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 07:37:32 PM EST

11

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

wetkarma.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:23:46 AM EST

12

Re: Put me on the side of the vaccination skeptics

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:18:28 PM EST