Business

What's The Hot Skinny On Super Models? Fatten Up For Fashion.

MayorBob.

Posted to Business on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 04:08:50 PM EST. RSS.

The days of "heroin chic" in the fashion world appear to be over.  The days of gaunt, skeleton-thin waifs waltzing down fashion show catwalks may be at an end.  Because social critics and health officials in a number of countries have been critical of "unhealthily skinny" fashion models dominating shows there's a move underway to ban the grossest examples of them.  The first step has been taken in Madrid, Spain, where organizers of an upcoming Madrid show will ban all models who show up with a Body Mass Index (BMI) of less than 18.

Madrid Fashion Week is one of Spain's most prestigious fashion trade shows.  Yet, the spectacle of painfully thin fashion models demonstrating haute couture drew resounding criticism from doctors and women's rights groups.  The criticism became so loud and harsh that the Spanish Association of Fashion Designers has agreed to use the BMI as the yardstick by which it will determine who can model and who ought to go and get a square meal.  But this doesn't end with Madrid as the move to ban the super skinny fashion model is building in other shows and other countries.  The director of the Madrid show said the new rule is "important as far as health is concerned."  Government officials see size-zero models as promoting the wrong image of beauty to impressionable youth, "many teenagers imitate what they see on the catwalk."

Not everyone agrees.  One representative of a major modeling agency says the public should be encouraged to follow sound medical advice to pursue healthy lifestyles.  But she feels that the fashion industry is being viewed as "a scapegoat for weight-related diseases" and wonders if the move to ban super skinny models might endanger the careers of "naturally gazelle-like models."  The head of the French couture association said "everyone would laugh" if France followed Madrid's lead.

Luisel Ramos was only 22 years old when she died of heart failure at an Uruguayan fashion show last month.  Ramos had been encouraged to lose weight as a way of increasing her hireability as a model.  For three months leading up to her death, Ms. Ramos existed on a diet of green leaves and Diet Coke.  The World Health Organization says a BMI under 18 is underweight.  Most catwalk models would have to slap on the pounds to reach an 18, however.  Judging by their height and weight, supermodels such as Kate Moss, Lily Cole, and Giselle Bundchen would have to find another line of work - all of them score a BMI of 17 or below.  A spokesman for the Eating Disorders Association is saying that more than a ban is needed - there needs to be a law requiring people score at least 18: "This is about protecting the young women and men who work in the fashion industry, as well as those who are at risk of an eating disorder and can be influenced by the pictures that they see."  A doctor agrees with this, "the fashion industry has completely warped what is considered a normal size and it should be held accountable for that.  Many observers of the fashion industry have been calling for some form of regulation for going on six years.

Tags: fashion, models, fat, skinny (all tags)

This story: 30 comments (1 from subqueue)
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1

Quelle Horreur!

keta.

Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 04:58:34 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

The French have a saying for this "issue": Plus ca change...

The ultimate argument from the designers is that their clothes "hang" better on thin bodies.  Personally, I think the whole couture industry should be hung.  "Innovative" styles are nothing more than recycled styles, the affectation and assumed profundity of most in the industry is giggle-inducing, and if there is a more senseless field to work in, then I'm unaware of it.  But then, I like pro sports, and most all of my criticisms about the fashion industry are applicable there as well.  So, hang me.

Anyway, this issue comes up again, and again, and again, and fucking again.  The last line in the sub tells it all, really.  Every so often there's an outcry, and then things continue apace.

I like many different body shapes of women.  If a phoney-baloney industry prefers their facade to be fronted by rail-thin waifs who like to snort coke and smoke cigarettes to maintain their rail-thinicity, more power to 'em.  Blaming this industry for promoting unhealthy lifestyles in young people is akin to blaming pro athletes for encouraging bad behaviour in youth.  They're being used as scapegoats because proper values aren't being taught where they should -- in the home.

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Re: Quelle Horreur!

Thalia.

Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:56:47 PM EST

none

I find the standard "gosh, proper values should be taught in the home" disclaimer pretty bogus.  Studies do show that what kids are exposed to outside the home influences them, in particular peer pressure, has a greater influence than what parents can do.  Yes, I can keep television away from my kids, but I can't be there 24/7 to ensure that other kids do not criticize their looks, or suggest they don't have enough muscles, or...

Fashion shows are teaching kids that thin-is-in, and that a woman's value is rated by her looks.  Just as sports heroes taking steroids show them that your value in athletics is rated by your muscles, whether artificially acquired or not.  These are not good values to teach anyone.  And they do lead to unhealthy behaviors in kids.

I won't blame the fashion industry particularly.  I think the media is significantly more dangerous and influential.  But I'm still pleased that someone has noticed that fashion models do not represent a healthy reality.

Thalia

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Re: Quelle Horreur!

keta.

Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 09:54:53 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

I find the standard "gosh, proper values should be taught in the home" disclaimer pretty bogus.

I was taught to think for myself, Thalia, and the most well-adjusted kids I know now are being taught this very same tenet.

I don't for a minute discount peer pressure, media pressure, or even pressure from sports and fashion industries (amongst many others) having a huge effect on the thoughts and actions of young people.  But if these kids are taught to believe in themselves, and are shown the value of making their own decisions, then the whirlwind of push-and-pull influences we're all exposed to becomes much easier to handle.  

This belief in making your own way starts in the home.  Call it bogus all you like, but it is one of the prime responsibilities of a parent, as I see it.

And I wouldn't be caught saying, "gosh," when there are so many more colourful words to employ.

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Re: Quelle Horreur!

AI.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:06:57 AM EST

none

"Fashion shows are teaching kids"

That cracks me up.  

13

Re: What's The Hot Skinny On Super Models? Fatten

Ozyman.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:52:30 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I just calculated my wife & my BMI.  She's a 18.2, and I'm a 21.8.  I don't think she's unhealthly skinny, or even close.  In fact we both could use to lose a few pounds of fat (and gain a few pounds of muscle).  According to a site I found online, if she lost 3 pounds, she'd be a 17.8, and I seriously doubt losing 3 lbs. would make her unhealthy or unattractive.

FYI, both of us eat pretty much whatever we want, although our intake of soda and pre-prepared foods is minimal.  We used to exercise a few times a week, but haven't done it once in the last month.

In short, I think an arbitrary cut off at 18 is a bit much.  BMI is a reasonable estimate for most people, but for many people it's not.  If you are going to have a strict cutoff, I'd say that 16.5 or 17 would be more appropriate.  Yes some people with a BMI under 18 are probably unhealthy or "not a good role-model", but for others that's them in good shape.  Maybe I'm just biased because I work in Boulder; I would guess many of the people at my job would have a BMI at or under 18, and are in excellent physical condition.

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Re: What's The Hot Skinny On Super Models? Fatten

coquito.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 12:14:22 PM EST

none

I realize BMI is not a perfect measure of health, though I would think it was more likely to err on the side of obesity than on the side of anorexia. What I mean is, you can have a high BMI if you are short and fat, or if you are short and muscular, because BMI is just a function of height and weight, and weight does not discriminate between fat and muscle (which weighs more, per square inch, than fat). I would be willing to assume that these women with such low BMIs, given the industry they are in, are likely really skinny, as opposed to being in good shape.

I'm a relatively normal sized guy - 5'9.5" - and I weigh about 165. Of course, I'm not very muscled, so my BMI of 24.4, while normal, is close enough to overweight that I'd like to either get the number down, or simply have less fat at the same BMI. I'd have to weigh 122 lbs to be at a BMI of 18. If I simply lost 43 lbs, I can't imagine that I wouldn't look pretty sickly. Sure, I know people who probably have such low BMI's and I wouldn't think them unhealthy, but they are definitely the exception rather than the rule. Some people are just frikkin' tiny. Most are not. I think that the 18 BMI limit, while certainly arbitrary, is probably not too far off the mark. Besides, is there a better measure? Body fat percentage, for example, can be quite low for people like professional athletes, or the above-mentioned friends of mine. It is, like BMI, a possible sign of an unhealthy body, one that works generally, but not in all cases, and about as arbitrary as BMI.

Given the choice between arbitrary and nothing, in this particular case, I'm inclined to go with arbitrary.

Now with caps!

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Re: What's The Hot Skinny On Super Models? Fatten

Ozyman.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 02:38:28 PM EST

none

You might also be interested in this article:
http://www.halls.md/bmi/gap.htm

which discuss the possibility of a 'gap' between men & women's BMI.  Although officially BMIs between men and women are mostly comparable, from my reading of the article it seems like it makes more sense for there to be a 'gap' of about 2 between mens and womens BMI.  So I think an 18 BMI for women would be about the equivalent of a 20 BMI for men.  FYI, based upon my online calculator you would only need to weigh 135 to get under a 20 BMI.  For myself a weight of 140 gets me down to a 20 BMI.  While that would be a bit skinny, but it's just about what I weighed in high school (I was the same height).  I was much more active then and was probably in the best physical shape of my life, definitely not sickly or anything.

6

BMI

coquito.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:22:35 AM EST

4.00

So, not being sure what a girl with a BMI of 18 is supposed to look like, I went to google and found this monstrosity. I'm skeptical about its accuracy (and I'm really skeptical about it's draftsmanship), but the girls here don't start looking too good (either healthy or attractively built) until you get into the mid 20's.
I understand fashion has different standards, and that doesn't bother me excessively. Just as few people actually wear the clothing we see on the runway, I think that runway models are less influential (maybe just in the US) in terms of thinness than actresses are. And it seems even then, they face an uphill battle against the nation's increasing rates of obesity.
My gripe, and this is off-topic, has less to do with weight and more to do with the tendency of mass media to promote a narrow view of beauty, that, while it may not be the primary cause of why every beautiful woman I've ever known well turned out to be insecure about her looks, it definitely makes the situation even worse.
I sometimes have to wonder who the cruel and inhuman individuals are who make such decisions about what is or isn't beautiful in a magazine or in a movie. Having worked for a short while at a company that publishes a very well known Art/Fashion/Entertainment industry magazine, I've seen these slimeballs in action, airbrushing women's waists into oblivion, and smoothing faces until they look like they could be made of porcelain instead of actual flesh. In fact, I always though it seemed a bit... self-loathing, the way they excised so much of what was human and interesting about the celebrities in their pages, as though the most ideal humans are the ones who aren't human at all.
Anyway... I'm rambling. Back to my coffee...

Now with caps!

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Re: BMI

WMK.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:33:47 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I sometimes have to wonder who the cruel and inhuman individuals are who make such decisions about what is or isn't beautiful in a magazine or in a movie... airbrushing women's waists into oblivion, and smoothing faces until they look like they could be made of porcelain instead of actual flesh... self-loathing, the way they excised so much of what was human and interesting ... as though the most ideal humans are the ones who aren't human at all.

The individuals who do this are intent on maximizing thier audiences self loathing as it is the basis of consumerism.  Content people don't buy as much stuff therefor it is imperative that they be induced to a state of discontent before they will open thier minds/hearts to the message that buying shit will salve the discontent.  Pound the world with unattainable ideals/standards of 'happiness' based on material wealth, inhuman beauty, and unsustainable gluttony then offer to soothe intense shame of inadequacy with idiotic clothes, giant homes, fancy cars, gooey goops, slimy slathers, and hard on pills.  Claim it is just giving people what they want and not a giant cradle to grave mind fuck.

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

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Loathing

teaweed.

Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 12:03:47 AM EST

none

Content people don't buy as much stuff therefor it is imperative that they be induced to a state of discontent before they will open their minds/hearts to the message that buying shit will salve the discontent.

I had heard this before, and agreed, but it didn't really register until after I watched Roger Dodger. I'd also assumed until that point that manipulative seduction was fictional rather than possible. Only very recently I realized that the respectable euphemism for manipulation is "management". I used to browse Amazon in frustration with search topics like "sales tactics", "interpersonal dynamics" and "political psychology".

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Re: BMI

dzetetes.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:29:05 AM EST

3.50 (interesting, informative)

Unless things have changed a great deal in the past couple of years since I used to read it, most of the girls who pose for Perfect 10 (NSFW) have BMIs from about 17.5-19.5.  You can take the free tour and see some real-life examples of high underweight/low normal weight BMIs.

Perfect 10 used to publish the height and weight of each of the models who posed for the magazine, so assuming the information was accurate, it was easy to calculate BMIs.  I did an informal survey among my friends of which women in my copies of Perfect 10 they found the most attractive.  Their choices usually skewed toward the higher BMIs.  It's notable, however, that even though the higher BMIs represented by the magazine were just barely in the normal range, my friends all found their chosen model(s) to be just about perfect tens.  None of them said "Well, she's the best the magazine has to offer, but she could stand to gain about 15 pounds and get up to a BMI of about 22."  Part of that has to do with the models' fat distribution, of course.  The illustration you linked had rather shapeless women for the lower BMIs, but the women in the magazine tend to have large breasts and curvy hips relative to their body weight.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: BMI

Thalia.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:48:43 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

Today's pop quiz:  how many  of the models in Perfect 10 were photoshopped to look better?  

Answer:  100%.  There isn't a fashion/sexy magazine out there that doesn't photoshop.  Not just to remove wrinkles but to lift tits, erase jutting hip bones, smooth out skin tone, and generally make these models look like dolls, not like humans.

Thalia

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Re: BMI

dzetetes.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:21:39 PM EST

none

IIRC, Perfect 10 claims that they do only minimal photoshopping, and I believe they define "minimal" as removing skin blemishes and things of that nature, not reshaping body parts.  The cynic in me wants to agree that they might "accidentally" reshape a boob or something while removing a red mark, but in the absence of evidence other than the generalization "There isn't a fashion/sexy magazine out there that doesn't photoshop", the non-cynical part of me is inclined to take the magazine at its word.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: BMI

Thalia.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 07:11:46 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Minimal photoshopping is this stuff (look at before/after).  It's removing the normal wrinkles, muscles, and imperfections from an image.

Maximal photo shopping is this stuff.

Thalia

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Re: BMI

dzetetes.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 09:37:41 PM EST

none

Minimal photoshopping is this stuff (look at before/after).  It's removing the normal wrinkles, muscles, and imperfections from an image.

If you can provide before/after photos from Perfect 10 that show similarly heavy editing, or some evidence that the editors of the magazine would call the Fluid Effects photoshopping "minimal", I'll hop right on the bandwagon with you.

Maximal photo shopping is this stuff.

I LOL'd.  Michael Jackson in a Barney suit is just wrong.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: BMI

JimmyHavok.

Sun Oct 01, 2006 at 06:50:10 PM EST

none

That first before/after (the blonde model) is very disturbing.  The photo retoucher took out the model's musculature in the shoulder area.  Obviously, he though "skinny is more attractive than strong."

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Re: BMI

coquito.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:44:22 AM EST

none

Part of that has to do with the models' fat distribution, of course.  The illustration you linked had rather shapeless women for the lower BMIs, but the women in the magazine tend to have large breasts and curvy hips relative to their body weight.

That makes sense. Of course, the fashion model body and the centerfold body are, from what I've seen, pretty different. Sure, some women can do both, but it seems rare to see the kind of curves you often find (or maybe, used to find) in a centerfold on a runway, and you certainly never see the flat-chested, bony runway models in centerfolds. OK, maybe not never, but I think you can see my point. They're on opposite ends of a (short) continuum.

Perfect 10 used to publish the height and weight of each of the models who posed for the magazine, so assuming the information was accurate, it was easy to calculate BMIs.... t's notable, however, that even though the higher BMIs represented by the magazine were just barely in the normal range, my friends all found their chosen model(s) to be just about perfect tens.  None of them said "Well, she's the best the magazine has to offer, but she could stand to gain about 15 pounds and get up to a BMI of about 22."

I find it strange that they published height and weight. Is that supposed to make them more "real"? As for the added pounds thing - it hasn't been until recently that I could even envision what 10lbs more or less would look like on anyone. And only very recently did I realize the difference between how thin looks on paper and how it looks in person. I've seen plenty of women who looked, I thought, amazing in a magazine (some shots of Pam Anderson come to mind) but when I saw them in more natural photos or on TV around the same time, they looked thin, even unhealthy. I'm much more attuned (at 30) to what real women look like than I used to be. I can't imagine that, as a younger guy, it would have occurred to me to add 15 mental lbs to a near-perfect ten, but now that I can imagine it, I sometimes do.
Of course, that isn't to say I'm not attracted to thin women, it's just to say that I'm not only attracted to thin women and that, even though that was always true, it's taken some "training" to learn the difference between, say, what 115lbs looks like on a girl who's 5'1" and one who's 5'8".  

Now with caps!

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Re: BMI

ms sue.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 12:28:26 PM EST

none

I find it strange that they published height and weight.  Is that supposed to make them more "real"?

Could be. Although I know it's a very different venue, I always thought it was odd when beauty contestants' height and weight (measurements also?) used to be duly noted during pageants. Reminded me of a real cattle call.

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Re: BMI

dzetetes.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:07:49 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

I find it strange that they published height and weight.  Is that supposed to make them more "real"?

Could be. Although I know it's a very different venue, I always thought it was odd when beauty contestants' height and weight (measurements also?) used to be duly noted during pageants. Reminded me of a real cattle call.

In context, the height and weight stats aren't really any different than what Playboy publishes for its centerfolds.  For each model in Perfect 10, there'd be a brief section with the woman's hometown (a lot of them were from CIS countries, interestingly), interests, favorite actor or comedian, aspirations, and height and weight.  Stuff like that.  Perfect 10 does the little bio section for each of its models, whereas Playboy does it only for the centerfolds.  Playboy centerfolds divulge their measurements, among other things, and (optionally, I believe) height and weight.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: BMI

ms sue.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:55:42 PM EST

none

In context, the height and weight stats aren't really any different than what Playboy publishes for its centerfolds.

Oh, okay. I feel much better about it now.

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Re: BMI

dzetetes.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 05:13:39 PM EST

none

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.  I should have responded to coquito's post directly, perhaps.  I wasn't trying to justify the practice, just point out that I don't think it's to emphasize how "real" the women are since Playboy (whose models are often so synthetic that they could probably justly be called cyborgs) does the same thing.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: BMI

ms sue.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 06:17:35 PM EST

none

Got it. But yes, it probably did refer more to his post than to mine.

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Re: BMI

teaweed.

Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 07:21:10 PM EST

none

However flawed, that's an awfully interesting chart. I've been wondering since I read the write-up what 18 BMI women look like and whether a low BMI was decisive indicator of ill health, or just a point on a bell curve. I have a sister and cousin who look rather like grayhounds. Their collar bones, ribs and the knobs of their spines are prominent. I don't know what their BMIs are, but they are healthy and eat well.

2

Freedom of speech

maml.

Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:39:42 PM EST

3.00

I know, it's not the USA, so the rules are different.  But still, I think this does run into a human rights issue.  Fashion is an artform, art is expression, expression should not be regulated.

That said, models that look like coat hangers do nothing for me.  Fashion doesn't do much for me either.  Project Runway gives me the willies and they consistantly eject the person I thought should have won.  (My partner likes the show, I watch it because our computer is in the same room.)

...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.

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Re: Freedom of speech

Thalia.

Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:49:42 PM EST

3.00

Since it wasn't a government, free speech regulations would not apply even in the U.S.  A private consortium which puts on the fashion show has quite a few regulations.  For one, they only invite a few designers.  If I wanted to present my innovative approach to clothing (not bloody likely), they would send me home too.  Fashion is an art, and it isn't regulated.  However, if you want to present your fashion at the show in Madrid, you have to meet a bunch of requirements.  Apparently one of them is now that your models cannot be a size zero.

Other than that, I do agree that the fashion industry itself is rather ludicrous.

Thalia

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Project Runway

JimmyHavok.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:37:10 AM EST

none

Project Runway gives me the willies

That guy with the neck tattoo...gyahhhhhhh.  I want to read what it says and I want to upchuck every time I see it.

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