He had a helper dog. What the dog did was keep him rational. Basically, he loved the dog, and he could keep his shit together (even get an apartment after decades of homelessness) in order to serve the dog better. But the minute he was seperated from the dog, he started acting like the very mentally ill person he really was. He couldn't keep a job, the dog didn't help him that much. But it was truly touching how much the interdependancy between man and dog made him functional.
...Dwayne was hoping that he would pay exactly the right amount of attention to Francine's clitoris.
If Debby Rose has too much anxiety to eat in a restaurant, tehn stay the f*** home and cook a meal for herself.
I don't buy that having the monkey in the restaurant suddenly makes her anxiety go away. That's bullshit. She is just wanting to show off "look at me, I have a monkey and I can bring him with me like he's my child, am I not so cool?"
I don't want to go to a buffet and have a monkey pawing around. This lady is making all a big fuss over her own vanity, in my opinion. Some people will make up the most ridiculous excuses for their own character faults. This lady's biggest character fault is that she cannot connect with society at all. All she thinks about is herself and not the other patrons at the restaurants. If I was so deeply out of touch with society as her, I'd have anxiety in public also. This ain't about her monkey. Ms Rose needs a reality check. She is causing a big fuss and commotion, but if she can't handle a restaurant by herself or with human friends then she doesn't belong there.
She doesn't need a monkey, she needs a real therapist.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:58:46 AM EST
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If Debby Rose has too much anxiety to eat in a restaurant, tehn stay the f*** home and cook a meal for herself.
If the ruling goes against her, she won't be able to take her monkey to the grocery store and buy food for that home-cooked meal.
I'm rather disturbed by this idea of live animals as crutches for the emotionally unbalanced. If you need a fetish to ward off the anxiety monsters, what's wrong with a blankie or a plush toy? Sure, most of us gave those things up before we got to kindergarten but, hell, suck your thumb if that's what gets you through the day.
To play the devil's advocate for a moment, what's the big deal with animals in places that serve food? If we're worried about germ transmission, shouldn't we ban babies and small children from places that serve food? Those little snot-monster, germ factories are just as (or more) likely to poop and puke in the dining room than a well-trained dog or monkey.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:00:53 PM EST
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Cloud, I appreciate your reply, and expected some comment about babies.
The thing is, babies are people with rights. We put up with them because they are protected. But your point is well taken that babies in certain venues are just not a good mix. Like at a sporting event, or during a college lecture, you can't have a baby screaming next to you where you are trapped.
In restaurants, at times, if there is a crying or smelly baby nearby, you could ask the waitress or maitre d politely if you could move to a different table. I can appreciate that some people do not appreciate children in a restaurant when they are trying to enjoy their dinner. High class restaurants see far fewer babies than your family restaurants.
That being said, let's not group monkeys with babies. Leave the emotional crutch at home. If your desination is a family restaurant, then families are welcome.
I have a pet that stays at home. I would not bring my chinchilla to a restaurant. He doesn't beling there and I do not need him there for any reason.
To me it is a ridiculous argument to claim you need to bring your pet to a restaurant. A seeing eye dog, sure. Your emotional companion pet? No way.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:14:57 PM EST
5.00 (astute)
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My baby comment was mostly tongue in cheek but the part that was serious is more about why animals are excluded than why children are included.
What's so terrible about a well-trained, well-behaved animal inside a restaurant or grocery store? How is it worse than having a well-trained, well-behaved toddler inside a restaurant or grocery store? Just what is it that these health regulations prohibiting animals are protecting us from? How is a dog in a restaurant more of a threat to my health and safety than the same dog in a park?
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:43:24 PM EST
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My kid takes a bath every day. How often do you wash your dog, chinchilla, cat, or other pet?
Thalia
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:47:52 PM EST
4.00 (astute)
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Since neither your kid nor my dog, chinchilla, cat, or other pet will be handling or serving food to other customers, I fail to see your point.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 05:21:37 PM EST
4.00 (astute)
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If a baby shits it's diaper at the table beside me when I'm trying to eat, I don't think I'm going to say "at least he/she was bathed today".
I'm just going to lose my appetite.
Just sayin'.
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allergies for one thing
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 04:29:16 PM EST
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What's so terrible about a well-trained, well-behaved animal inside a restaurant or grocery store? How is it worse than having a well-trained, well-behaved toddler inside a restaurant or grocery store? Just what is it that these health regulations prohibiting animals are protecting us from?
I believe that one of the reasons is that many people are allergic to animal dander, and in environments such as diners or whatever, where people are seated fairly close to one another that closeness may trigger an allergic reaction. I also believe that the possibility of fleas, ticks and/or other parasites being carried by pets into eateries is another strike against them.
On a personal note, we've had our greyhound into quite a few bars where food was served, but have yet to be allowed* inside a restaurant with said hound - although if there's an outside dining area attached to those places, we've generally been welcome to dine there.
* we really don't try to get into restaurants with a dog in tow; mostly if we're out and about with our dog and happen across an interesting place while we're hungry, we'll ask if he's allowed in - mainly out of curiousity 'cuz we certainly don't expect access to the inner sanctum with its patrons, most of whom may not appreciate 98lbs of greyhound eyeballing their food :-)
Somewhere in my soul, there's always Rock -n- Roll... Joe Strummer
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Re: allergies for one thing
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 04:57:12 PM EST
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I believe that one of the reasons is that many people are allergic to animal dander, and in environments such as diners or whatever, where people are seated fairly close to one another that closeness may trigger an allergic reaction. I also believe that the possibility of fleas, ticks and/or other parasites being carried by pets into eateries is another strike against them.
Airlines allow people to bring pets into the cabin and that's a much more confined space than a restaurant. People are allergic to peanuts, but restaurants and grocery stores aren't prohibited from serving or selling them.
People carry parasites, too. Between flea collars and Frontline I'd think restaurant patrons would be more at risk of getting head lice from a human than getting fleas or ticks from a dog.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:40:45 PM EST
5.00 (brilliant, astute)
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In restaurants, at times, if there is a crying or smelly baby nearby, you could ask the waitress or maitre d politely if you could move to a different table.
Why is the onus on the person who is being decibel-ed or crappy-diaper-ed out of their paid for recreational culinary experience to be relocated and not the decibel-er or gas-er? Babies, as you noted, do have rights as human beings, but they are also not of the age of majority and therefore any disruptive effects that they may have on the environment around them falls on the shoulders of their tenders. Or put another way: when I have the "right" to walk into the restaurant of my choice:
1 - carrying a boom-box with the soundtrack of my choice (including one of a screaming baby) and not be ejected; or
2 - dressed in overtly and wide-ranging smelly clothes including soaking in my own urine and/or feces and not be denied service;
Then babies have the same "right". Hey, you said "rights" - that means we all have them. "Rights" are something possessed by all of us, correct? If you don't agree that I have the same "right" to disrupt a public space in a similar fashion, then I suggest you drop this talk of "rights" and re-phrase it as "It's my personal belief that people with babies are to be allowed an unofficial yet theoretically socially sanctioned pass w/r/t what is acceptable behavior in a public space. Because until I can do the same thing, it is not a "right".
That said, babies and monkeys are not to be put in the same category and this woman should get over herself. I fully agree with that.
And other lampoonery of such kind.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 08:53:58 AM EST
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Tyger, what you are overlooking here are what we call manners. Being socially polite when you are in a social context is the correct behavior and there should be an onus for people to try and be non-disruptive if possible. In all honesty, anybody can be offended or uncomfortable in any restaurant for any reason. You should take ownership of your own special needs. In a family restaurant, you should expect families, children who can be loud or disruptive. It is also reasonable to expect the parents of the loud disruptive or dirty diapered kids to do their best to mitigate some of the discomforts they cause other patrons.
But in the case that you can't stomach being near someone's kids, propriety suggests that you seek to be moved to another table or leave the restaurant.
Be honest Tyger, have you ever been in a restaurant with smelly diapered children (and or adults) and had to deal with loud and disruptive behavior ruining your dining experience? If you have, then how did you react? Did you ask for the family to be removed from the restaurant? Did you confront the offending people? Did you file a complaint? I want to know how you reacted in such a circumstance. Do you wish children to not be allowed in restaurants?: Special needs citizens? The elderly? How much can you take?
Unfortunately, when you go out to a restaurant, you are not guaranteed a wonderful experience. You could get bad food, bad service a bad environment, poor cmpany, and less than tasteful social experience. One of the things we do in open society is accept a few of these imperfections and try and make the best of it.
Once I took my family to the 99 Restaurant. My son actually got sick and vomited on the bench and floor. It was embarrassing, we didn't realize he wasn't feeling well. None of the people sitting near us seemed to complain, and the staff was extremely helpful to us in a difficult situation. My son was 4 at the time. The 99 Restaurant is a family restaurant, and sometimes you gotta expect unpleasant occurrences. That being said, I wouldn't want pets and monkeys in the restaurant.
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Re: Me And My Monkey Would Like A Table For Two
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 09:34:49 AM EST
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1 - carrying a boom-box with the soundtrack of my choice (including one of a screaming baby) and not be ejected;
Well, a boom-box is not equivilent to a crying baby. Do you have the right in a restaurant to talk loudly? Or even laugh raucously? I'd suspect you do, though you might be asked to tone it down. Similarly a family with a baby that is continuously crying should be asked to take the baby either to a restroom or outside till it calms down. And honestly, how often do you encounter babies that cry continuously? When my children were babies, we often took them to restaurants and I can't remember a single case of them crying for long periods of time. Whenever they cried, my wife and I took care of it by dealing with whatever was making them cry or removing them from the area if we couldn't pacify them in a reasonable amount of time.
2 - dressed in overtly and wide-ranging smelly clothes including soaking in my own urine and/or feces and not be denied service;
I certainly wouldn't deny you service if you accidently soiled your clothing, as long as you went to the restroom, cleaned yourself up, changed your clothes and either discarded your soiled clothes or securely bagged them up so that the smell was not obvious to those sitting next to you. Which is what parents should do if their baby soils its clothes.
In your comment you criticised babies, but your ire if focused on the wrong party. Your ire should be directed at parents who fail to take care of their babies. BAbies are for the most part helpless and unaware of their effect on those around them. It is the responsibility of the parent see that their baby's behavior/aroma is not disruptive of the people around them.
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B-Boys make some noise
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 01:32:49 PM EST
4.00 (informative, informative)
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"a boom-box is not equivilent to a crying baby"
No joke. Unlike with a boom box, it's really, really, hard to break dance to the sounds coming out of a crying baby. I learned that the hard way at a battle.
What is stupid here is not that a woman wants to take a monkey to a restaurant, but that no one feels empowered to tell her whether she can bring the monkey into the restaurant without first working their way through a bureaucracy.
Consider the plight of Director of Health Kevin Gipson. He is probably a smart man, equipped with a brain that let him rise to be a Director of Health. But, he is powerless to decide anything about the status of the monkey; instead, he needs "something from the federal government, official, that tells me that that indeed is a service animal." Understand? His own judgment is nothing; he has no ability to decide what animals get to enter restaurants in his county; only the federal government can say whether that monkey gets to go into the restaurant. And what question is the federal government being asked? Not anything that relates to the real world, but, rather, which of two arbitrary and meaningless labels--"service animal" or "therapy animal"--gets attached to the monkey.
Consider a more rational world. The woman could sit down and discuss her situation with the restaurant manager, demonstrate that her monkey will hurt no one, and get his permission to eat at his restaurant with her animal. That would be a sane, sensible way to handle the situation. But sorry, that's not our world: the health code ties the restaurant owner's hands, and the ADA ties the hands of the guy who is in charge of the health code. A completely tiny dispute gets federalized, thanks to the massive regulatory bureaucracy we have chosen to create.
Thank God she didn't want to marry it. But who knows after dinner and drinks.
It's a monkey. A monkey. C'mon...a monkey.
There's about a gazillion years of evolution before I start seeing monkey's as anything but a wire crate ride away from Asian/South American/ African wilderness. The Wilderness; where there is a slight difference between a meal and fecal matter.
Calmed by the most hyper-active of creatures? I get antsy just watching the damn things on Discovery Channel.
The poor woman should just stay at home. Mental health is not about putting the general public in the anxious state you are trying to escape from.
In response to the idea of "avoiding" a potentially anxious situation, and the person who called it "bs"...I say to you that your idea is not bull shit, but it is certainly stupid. Although some people would say that is a good to avoid things that might upset you (or in more extreme cases cause sever mental dissonence) that's usually an excuse to not participate in life. "Cognitive Therapy", sometimes employed with older children to cope with scary movies and such, is a well-studied idea that encourages the person to clowly integrate the behaviors into their life. Avoiding those result in "avoidance behaviors".
In relation to the emotional support animal, I agree the idea of an esa monkey is disconcerning...but, "what ever floats your boat." I am aquiring an emotional support animal for myself to treat bipolar disorder and anxiety symptoms. The only reason I am not going for the training to make it a serivce dog is the money involved. Although these dogs might be a crutch in your mind- then so are medicines and therapy...and if you belive no one should participate in that "mess" then you might as well look up the church of scientology and become a Tom Cruise fan.
The ADA considers mental illness a disability, people with disabilities have rights to be "reasonably accomodated." I know this because of my battle to accomodate my ema in my "no pets" apartment. An ema or service dog is perscribed like medication.
You are bitter about this, I understand- it's an avoidance behavior to your own anxiety ( I think).
In conclusion, I believe that although we might be scared of something (like a monkey at a buffet) we should learn to understand it and integrate it into our life.
A person having an EMA demonstrates that they are attempting a "normal" life and treating their disorder- which is hard! Most metal disorders have a stigma and are embarrassing- I wouldn't go to the doctor for 3 years because I was embarrassed. I'm glad the lady has a monkey, and I'm glad it makes her happy.
She should however, show people the same respect they show her- by providing them with equal opertunity to enjoy the public space (by making sure her animal is clean, and quiet- it should never reside in a high chair but by her feet- but on the other hand, it's a monkey not a dog).
Also if she wants the animal to come into the resturaunt, etc. she needs certification that it is a SERVICE DOG not an EMA. Although these animals are protected under things like the FAIR HOUSING ACT, they are not given the same rights to come into resteraunts etc (it is at the discretion of the buisness owner). However, the animal is allowed to travel with the owner if a crebible verbal answer+ viable doctors documentation is presented.
I think there needs to be more caring, and less hate against people who are just trying to exist like you.
Sincerely,
ME