Etcetera

A Statewide Vote of No Confidence

pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 02:06:41 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Recent polls indicate that about half of the residents of the Garden State hate New Jersey and would like to leave.

Long known as the "armpit of America" New Jersey has seen rapid growth in recent decades. While many areas of the state have transformed from their farming roots to become wealthy bedroom communities what few cities NJ has are frequently known as crime infested hell holes beset by corruption and poverty.  

While NJ has been saddled with high costs and enormous tax burdens for the past several decades, making it difficult for children to stay in their communities after transitioning into adulthood, this is the first survey that the author is aware of that suggests most of the state is fed up enough to consider leaving.

The resurgence of the Black Bear problem probably does not help things, either.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, New Jersey, Garden State, sucks (all tags)

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From a former resident of the Garden State

pO157.

Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 09:33:07 AM EST

5.00

NJ is the state I resided in for the longest period of my life. When I was a little kid my parents decided to avoid the increasing 'hoodification of our current residence and into the supposedly greener pastures of the Garden State. So, when I was about 4 we shuffled off to NJ. It really was the only state of my childhood I significantly recall, so I guess I would have to consider myself a Garden State native.

When we moved into a small town in Central NJ it was quiet. Only a few thousand residents, most of them multi-generational types. Lots of farmers (our house was built on an old potato farm back in the 60s or 70s). Everybody in school knew each other through their families, so I was kind of the odd ball, but it was okay because when you start school in Kindergarten you make friends right away.

Over the years things changed, even though our town was about ~75 minutes away from NYC. The area became even more populated, the school board released figures showing student numbers growing in an exponential manner. Everybody thought they were wrong and trying to justify extra taxes but it turned out they had actually underestimated. Massively. As the years went by all of the empty space and farmland disappeared, costs went up, and traffic became a massive gridlock.

Many of the multi-generational classmates took their leave, often selling the family houses (and their acreage) for massive bucks. It was common to hear from people who had just sold out that even they wouldn't be able to buy their own houses back if they wanted to -- property prices were flying. The soccer moms took over the area with their giant SUVs, strip malls grew from the ground like weeds, and characters from the city moved in and set up crack houses (often without the watchful residents noticing).

It was odd to watch an entire area lose its culture and morph into a bedroom community in the space of probably a decade. I used to do EMS (first as a volunteer, then as a way to earn extra money during college) so that gave me a chance to meet all of the residents and see places I normally would not interact with. Crack houses sprung up in middle class neighborhoods, and the people next door would not know because they were almost never home or just thought the neighbors just really liked Dylan. One time I picked up some kid I went to high school with who needed to go to a detox/lockdown facility and on the way there he pointed out all the various "pharmacies" which I had no idea even existed.

Bangers from the local "branch" of gangs from Camden, Trenton or NYC would come from two or three towns away to parties and start trouble. There were also parts you would not want to visit, and these areas would be mere miles from nice upper middle class areas. A couple of times the ambulance (thankfully didn't happen to me) took stray gunfire at stoplights for no clear reason.

Upon graduation everybody left. Seriously. You either joined the military, or went to college. (One thing I remember from my HS graduation that still kind of makes me angry is they had a list in the program of kids who were going to which college, and all that. IIRC, people who joined the service or had signed on for a job didn't get that recognition. WTF?) A few of my friends who tried to stay (one got a temporary civil service engineering job inspecting amusement park rides) quickly found out that even married they had to live with parents or friends. An entire generation got priced out of its own village and left the state. The taxes do not help either, they are insane.

Why stay there? You could get a much better life, at a lower cost in another place. My entire family has moved out and not looked back. ("Don't look back, you can never look back.") One of the reasons I never go back home is I don't think I would recognize my old home or the surrounding area anymore. The state... it is a changin'.

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Aren't We All Former Residents?

thefadd.

Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 06:54:34 PM EST

none

Like you, I grew up in New Jersey and watched the farmland around me turn into suburbia. The farm we lived on during my youngest years was turned into an Arnold Palmer-designed golf course. The suburban development I spent most of my youth in had been a potato farm only 20 years before we moved in. One of the houses in the development was not like the others--they'd left the farm house in among the rest. It was far and away the nicest.

Kids have always left New Jersey and it's always been a problem. All the best students go to college elsewhere and the vast majority of people who do go to college there leave for jobs elsewhere. I recall the Whitman administration starting some program to try to keep young people in the state. I'm sure it failed and will be tried again and fail again.

New Jersey will always be a bedroom community. People in the south are there for Philadelphia. People in the north are there for New York. It's more convenient to downtown Philly or Manhattan to live in New Jersey than to live in Pelham or Media. This seems to be the one thing that people who grew up in say anywhere else, where there's one major *town* every eight hundred miles simply cannot ever get their head around--people who live in New Jersey don't identify with New Jersey. At all. *People in Trenton seem to also not understand this but I think they're being disingenuous. So long as New York and Philadelphia--and even Baltimore/DC/Boston to some extent--remain strong, you'll never get enough people elsewhere to make the state anything else. Is this a problem? Apparently to some people but I'm sure it's very similar in Connecticut and Delaware--other places pulled in half by two major metro areas that economically subsume them as states.

It's funny. I will always defend New Jersey and I always take offense to insults to it. Most I feel are honestly unfair and don't really know the state itself. The beaches "down the shore" in the south east and the forests and mountains "up state" in the north west are fantastic areas. Truly some of the best I've seen in this country, especially considering their proximity to so many major population centers. But it's true. I can't think of a single reason why I'd ever live there again.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 09:51:39 PM EST

none

Kids have always left New Jersey and it's always been a problem. All the best students go to college elsewhere and the vast majority of people who do go to college there leave for jobs elsewhere
I wonder where you and P0l57 are from. I mean specifically.

And, I wonder why you think, "the vast majority of people who do go to college there leave for jobs elsewhere." Is it a "feeling" you have? Is it a dream you had? Are you projecting? Or do you have objective data that says so? (Taking into account, of course, that "elsewhere" includes NYC and Philadelphia.)

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

pO157.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:16:08 AM EST

none

Two ways:

1)Talking to my friends after high school/college. From my group of high school friends, I know of only one person who remains in the state, and he is/was a 3x college dropout whose blog contains numerous amusing anecdotes including (but not limited to) a multi-part serial about his recent jail/prison stay. Of course, it could just be the type of people I hung out with in school or small sample size.

2) Reading reports on the intertubes about the situation. Apparently most NJ students flee the state to start college. NJ also is apparently one of the more concentrated states in terms of adults with advanced degrees, yet cannot seem to stem the tide of their young leaving.

I am sure googling "NJ and Brain Drain" or will find more articles on the subject.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:49:03 AM EST

none

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two or three top-tier colleges/universities in NJ: Princeton and Stevens (and I suppose Rutgers, but only for certain fields of study). Am I missing any?

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

pO157.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:54:36 AM EST

none

There appear to be 38 colleges, seminaries, universities (many with large enrollment or multiple campuses). In addition there are 19 community colleges in the state as well.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:06:48 PM EST

none

38 doesn't seem like very many for a state of 9 million, compared, for example, to the 13 colleges in Worcester, a city of around 200,000.  Anyway, I mentioned top colleges, and, again, two or three doesn't seem like very many for 9 million people.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

pO157.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:58:47 PM EST

none

I believe your "top colleges" comment is a bit off. It should not matter how many Ivy League schools a state has (NJ has Princeton BTW). If an area has 2nd tier universities they should still have full enrollment if students value remaining in the area.

Sure, the "brains" may go off to Harvard, but 99% of the college bound enrollment is not Ivy material anyway. But, those above average students would still want to attend a 4 year school which is where the (in this case) 37 other universities come in. And the students attending the 37 non-Ivy schools in-state may still be "drained" just as well after graduation, albeit 4 years later than their peers who left the state altogether right after high school.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 01:58:26 PM EST

none

Somehow you completely missed that I mentioned Princeton above, and that my main point is that 38 colleges seems like far fewer than one would expect given the size of the state. The question I am raising is to what extent are students forced to leave NJ for an education due to the dearth of local schools, particularly good ones.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

thefadd.

Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:37:14 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

The question I am raising is to what extent are students forced to leave NJ for an education due to the dearth of local schools, particularly good ones.

That may very well be the case. Take the sport of lacrosse for example. As a college sport it's huge in NC and Virginia. Yet they don't play it in high school there. The only places it's a high school sport really are NJ and northward. There's lots of reasons people leave the state but a large part of that is, as you point out, the sheer number who go there in the first place. There's articles like the ones p0 linked to constantly in the NJ press.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Aren't We All Former Residents?

MayorBob.

Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 02:52:21 PM EST

none

You're half right (almost) about the outside job markets having an impact on Delaware.  I say half because Baltimore doesn't really have much of an impact, employment-wise on Delaware.  Philly, yes to an extent.  But that extent doesn't extend much below northern New Castle County.  For the most part, those who live in Delaware work in Delaware.  I say this from the perspective of a person who worked in Philly for more than 20 years, commuting every day.  The ridership by rail and by car into Philadelphia was always higher coming from Jersey or the outlying Pennsylvania counties than it ever was from Philadelphia.

Now, if you go lower in Delaware to the seashore resorts, it seems to me that the vast majority of people who buy second homes there or retire there or just vacation there for a week or so, come from the Washington, DC area.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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The last word in my first paragraph.

MayorBob.

Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 03:30:51 PM EST

none

It should have been Delaware rather than Philadelphia.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: A Statewide Vote of No Confidence

port1080.

Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 07:19:59 AM EST

none

The irony here is that my first girlfriend and I broke up almost entirely because she never saw herself leaving the Garden State, and I never saw myself living there. I wonder if she still feels the same way now? Anyway, I'm glad it worked out that way and I think my wife is too ;-)

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