Politics

The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own Base?

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:40:55 PM EST (promoted by Acefantastik). RSS.

With all the Presidential horse-racing going on, you may have forgotten that the Democrats still control Congress. How are they doing?

Budget negotiations are close to finishing for a package of funding bills. The most controversial one includes a provision to give President Bush $70 Billion in continued funding for the Iraq War without any strings attached. This is the latest move by the democratic congressional delegation that is likely to be seen as antagonizing the parties' liberal base that voted out the GOP in order to end the war.

Support for the Iraq was has "plummeted." Thus one might expect the Democrat party, which rode to legislative majorities in both houses of Congress during the '06 election to demand an end to the war. These supporters may have been shocked to learn the first Iraq-related measure the Congress worked on after taking office in January was a simple "non-binding" resolution stating they disagreed with sending extra troops.  

Pressure is rising for the Democrats to "Do something." However, it is unclear if the leadership of the party is heeding that call. In a speaking event a few months ago, the Speaker of the House complained about protesters setting up camp in her yard in California. She commented that "We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow." She further warned "advocates" to not to target democrats or their officials because they serve as "leaders" and it would be a "waste of time." So far, the Speaker's efforts to end the war have been limited to filing repetitive bills to limit the US presence in Iraq which are quickly rejected and admittedly symbolic angering party loyal who feel like victims of broken promises. Technically, on paper the democratic party did not make Iraq a major plank of their campaign platform.

Party liberals, who comprise a substantial portion of the base, are increasingly calling for the impeachment of the President and Vice President for war crimes and getting involved in Iraq. However, these pleas are ignored by the party leadership. Secretary Pelosi went on the record in October stating that despite controlling both houses of congress and the nation's purse strings the Democractic party simply does not have the power to make changes in war policy until after 2008 when a new (and hopefully non-GOP) candidate takes office.

This is what elections are about. We didn't go in having the signature or veto pen that he has. We hoped he would listen to representatives and the thinking of the American people. He refuses to (do that).

Despite tough talk for the cameras or amongst the legislative troops in private caucuses, the party leadership appears to be gambling on the American people buying their explanation that funding only $70B of a requested $200B for the war with no strings attached is at least a partial victory. Administration officials, however, are confident Congress will continue to provide full funding through the next year.

"The base will not be happy," groaned one Senior Democrat, who complained that giving in to the Secretary of Defense's threats to lay off civilian Department of Defense employees, military contractors and freeze purchasing rather than deny money for the war will look extremely weak. Party leaders also fear that inaction and divisions in the party over the inability to confront an administration with dismal poll numbers over issues important to its members or the world as a whole, such as global warming, will lead to major problems within their ranks right before the '08 election. GOP candidates are hoping this plays right into their hand. According to Congressman Ray LaHood (R-Ill): "The strategy is to lay low and then blame them for not getting anything done."

Tags: Democrats, election 2008, written by po157, edited by Ace, Congress, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid (all tags)

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Re: The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:38:23 AM EST

4.00 (informative)

...the Democrats still control Congress. How are they doing?
If you're a rich farmer, the Democrats are doing great!

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Re: The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 01:04:46 PM EST

5.00 (informative, informative)

...the Democrats still control Congress. How are they doing?
Here's another one: More and more states have begun rejecting federal funds for abstinence-only sex education programs. In fact, at least $15 million of current funding will go unspent because of state government that have decided that such programs are ineffectual. What does the Democratically-led Congress have to say about this? They're considering increasing abstinence program funding for next year.

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Re: The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own

MayorBob.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 06:04:33 PM EST

2.00 (funny)

The Democrats have a majority, but by the slimmest of margins.  Certainly nothing that will garner a veto by Bush is going to get done by this Congress.  Now, if you want to insure a veto-proof measure, they need to focus on the truly important issues like the importance of Christmas and Christianity.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/343463_mcdermott14.html

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own

pO157.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 07:47:41 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

The Democrats have a majority, but by the slimmest of margins.  Certainly nothing that will garner a veto by Bush is going to get done by this Congress.

Then pass the legislation that should be passed and let it be vetoed. At that point, refuse to give Bush what he wants. Then they can blame Bush and say "Well, we TRIED but he kept vetoing it." Isn't that a lot better than "Well, we shouldn't propose stuff because he'll just veto it so we'll talk about how important Christmas is?" or "Well, he veto'd it so we better just give him what he wants. It's better that way."

Screw that. The Democrats are mortgaging their parties future by letting themselves be walked all over. They have the power to play hardball and shut off funding. Use it. Maybe then Bush et al will be willing to negotiate in good faith. Don't play the whole "Well, the legislative branch is not very powerful so just vote for us next year." Come on. I hope the American people are smarter than that. If not the Americans as a whole, at least the base you just disillusioned is.

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Re: The Democratic Party: A Race to Erase its Own

thefadd.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 01:41:16 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

There is no such thing as the Democratic party.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Still an R majority for legislating

Shy Elf.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 11:06:48 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting)

If you have the gavel you can exercise a lot of control over what actually comes up for a vote, and you can keep a lot of legislation you don't like from being passed, but when it comes to passing legislation, you have to actually have the votes to do it.  And, since the Democratic Caucus has a much larger diversity of views than the Republican Caucus, and is much less likely to obey party discipline, the Democrats need something like 55% in the House and in the Senate in order to regularly pass their own bills.

In order to get anything passed without significant Republican support, you need to get the support of Joe Lieberman on those issues where he is conservative, and the support of someone else conservative on other issues.

Despite the futility, I really think that the Democrats need to be bringing up legislation with a vision for the future, even if they can't pass it.  At least that way we can see their vision for the future.  As it is now, they don't seem to have one.

What is it that we expect them to accomplish?  I can't help thinking that the biggest thing the Democrats in congress were elected to do was to not get us into another war, and they (with help from Hillary) were rolling along towards a war with Iran until a CIA whistleblower leaked the national intelligence estimate.

Getting us out of Iraq immediately only has the support of about 2/3 of Democratic congressmen, and though it has support from more than half of Americans, the median opinion is nearly neutral, so it wouldn't win them that much approval even if they accomplished it, and they'd still be blamed for things going wrong after they left.

Everybody knows that health care is badly broken.  Even if you have insurance, you don't really have insurance, due to insurance group rolling.  If you ever really need insurance, you will have a preexisting condition and won't be able to get it from anyone but the company you already have it from.  The people left in any pool get steadily sicker and sicker.   This makes rates go up, so the people left in the pool will be sicker, so rates will go up again, and so on until you can't pay the premium and have to drop your income enough to get on Medicaid to stay alive.  We don't train enough doctors in this country, and rely on importing doctors from India (and other places, but I see a whole lot from India) with poorer skills.  Medical care costs far too much, and doctors pay far too much in malpractice insurance to settle far too many far to expensive lawsuits.  And we spend almost as much time and money arguing about who pays for care as we do actually treating people.

Yet people know that any move to any different system could go very badly wrong, and there isn't a whole lot of public pressure on the issue, and any movement by the congress would have to lead public opinion, and be accepted later, and it couldn't override a veto anyhow.

Democrats are now less in favor of pork barrel spending than Republicans, but because Republicans have gotten worse and not because they have gotten any better.

I can't see what impeachment is for if you have a government that routinely refuses to obey the law and never force them to, and which uses the prosecutorial power as an instrument of partisan politics.

Energy supply and global warming are never considered as linked problems.  We need to do what we can do now, since it's already too late.  The proposals are a few dollars for battery research and a tax on carbon.  The problem is that a carbon tax pushes electric generation towards using natural gas which could be used for transportation easily, and ends up making our energy supply problem even worse.

Immigration reform is problematic for the Democrats, and I can see why they don't want to talk about it, because support for their traditional position has disintegrated.

I know the Democrats don't have the votes to get anything significant passed, but instead of arguing amongst themselves, agreeing on solutions to problems and then trying to convince the country of them, the Democrats are sitting around holding their fingers to the wind and waiting for the political wind to blow their way.

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Re: Still an R majority for legislating

pO157.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 09:28:44 AM EST

5.00 (informative, astute)

We don't train enough doctors in this country, and rely on importing doctors from India (and other places, but I see a whole lot from India) with poorer skills.  Medical care costs far too much, and doctors pay far too much in malpractice insurance to settle far too many far to expensive lawsuits.  And we spend almost as much time and money arguing about who pays for care as we do actually treating people.

Blame the AMA. They have a major problem with qualified non-physicians providing basic primary care or specialty care. They also restrict the number of new doctors trained which keeps the supply down. If you have a sore throat or need your immunizations updated before a trip abroad do you really need to see a board certified MD for this if a nurse practitioner or PA is just as competent to handle the minor things?

The thing with India is that most of their doctors just came straight from college. Being a "Doctor" is actually a college level degree program there, ~5 years. According to a few of my friends from that part of the world it is also not that uncommon for average students with parents who have even the most modest of incomes to buy a spot in lower ranked schools for their children. To me, this is similar to the exact type of situation Abraham Flexner tried to stop in this county a hundred years ago.

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Difficult Choices

skeptic.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:00:40 AM EST

none

It seems clear at this point that the Iraq War has been grossly mishandled.  It is not going well, and it probably should have been avoided in the first place by using UN diplomacy and economic embargo to deal with Saddam Hussein, rather than military invasion.  (I also think that even if diplomacy and embargo had failed, a military operation could have been arranged with full UN approval and support, which would have achieved much more than the US-British alliance has been able to manage.)  Nonetheless, that does not mean that a sudden withdrawal of US forces from Iraq will solve the problem that we now have.  Particularly given the money and lives that have already been invested in the effort to neutralize the threat of a hostile Iraq, it would be very unfortunate indeed if the end result were to be an Iraq that is even more hostile and threatening to the US than it had previously been under the very unenlightened rule of Saddam Hussein.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party have very similar philosophies and objectives when it comes to American security (which is one reason why Ralph Nader has referred to them jointly as the Republicrats).  We saw this during the Vietnamese War as well.  Democratic President Johnson and Republican President Nixon both promised to end the war, in response to the very high level of public dissatisfaction, and both wound up prolonging it instead.  (Nixon, to the end of his days, insisted on taking credit for ending the war,  but if he had really wanted to he could have ended it many years earlier.)  They both (incorrectly) perceived a threat to American security that they simply could not allow, no matter how high the cost was of fighting it.

In the case of Iraq, I personally do see a much more real threat to American security than the one which was thought to be presented by a communist takeover of Vietnam (ironically, communist Vietnam has subsequently caused no problems for the US).  At this point it appears that any sudden US withdrawal from Iraq would leave Iran as the only regional power which would be able to influence the political future of Iraq, and Iran is a very bitter, determined enemy of the US (an enmity which, one might argue, the US has fully earned, by its previous creation and support for the very harmful dictatorship of Shah Pahlavi).

This does not give the Democratic Party any easy choices.  They can continue fighting in Iraq and thus anger their anti-war supporters, or withdraw and possibly precipitate a huge disaster which may lead to a new wave of attacks against the US.  They have to somehow deal with the mess that George W. Bush, and previous decades of inept American leadership, have created.  They inherit problems that seem virtually insoluble, and everybody will expect and demand miracles from them.  I don't think they are up to it.

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Re: Difficult Choices

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 09:49:05 AM EST

5.00 (astute, interesting)

They have to somehow deal with the mess that George W. Bush, and previous decades of inept American leadership, have created.  They inherit problems that seem virtually insoluble, and everybody will expect and demand miracles from them
I don't expect miracles; all I want is for the federal government to stop spending so much godamned money.

Here's what I wish the Democrats would propose: roll back the major spending increases undertaken during the Bush Administration (war in Iraq, Dept. of Homeland Security, prescription drug benefit) and thereafter no increases to federal spending at all. (I don't mind if they have increases indexed to inflation and population growth.) Do that for a decade or so and we'll see a significant reduction to the national debt and a stronger economy. (And without tax increases! Read my lips!)

Unfortunately that is almost the polar opposite to what the Democrats say they want. They'd rather increase spending further with things such as nationalized health care.

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Re: Difficult Choices

thefadd.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 01:39:47 AM EST

none

The fact of the matter is the American people would have been better off arming Saddam to the teeth and sending him back into Iran a la 1982.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Difficult Choices

pO157.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 09:16:55 AM EST

none

It is a sad commentary on this country when arming a despot and starting another proxy war between two regional powers would have created less of a mess than the shenanigans we have caused to date.

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Re: Difficult Choices

skeptic.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 09:37:54 AM EST

none

I agree that the Bush administration has been guilty of excessive and unwise spending.  But that doesn't really address the foreign policy problems that I was talking about in my previous comment.  The most inexpensive foreign policy would be isolationism; is that what you would advocate?  I don't ask this sarcastically; it may well be that isolationism is the best option left to the US, but even so, by leaving the rest of the world to do as it wishes without US interference, the US may only encourage the nations and factions that already hate the US to mount ambitious new attacks.  That's why I claim that this is not an easy choice.  Still, however easy or difficult the choice may be, there are going to be choices made in January of 2008, when a new President (and probably a Democratic President) takes office.  

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Re: Difficult Choices

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 11:11:18 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

The most inexpensive foreign policy would be isolationism; is that what you would advocate?
I don't advocate isolationism. I think the best basic foreign policy change would be simply to end the Bush Administration's (and more broadly, the neo-conservative's) belligerence. It doesn't cost anything to talk nicely about folks from other countries, and it's not really hard to do - even if you disagree with those people. (Bush's basic philosophy sometimes seems sort of like Teddy Roosevelt's, except he forgot the "speak softly" part.)

Perhaps a more important, though arguably tricker, change would be to end the irregular way the US has been treating terrorism suspects. I wouldn't want to go back to the Clinton-era tactic of treating international terrorism as merely a law enforcement problem, but I think it's pretty clear that holding prisoners (such as in Guantanamo) for whom we have little or no evidence is counterproductive as a foreign policy matter.

Above you mentioned that it's not realistic to expect miracles from the Democrats, and that's true. But it's also true that there are certain things that cannot be done easily (or in this case, undone easily). Still I don't see any other way to restore the reputation of the US in the rest of the civilized world, i.e., among the citizens of western liberal democracies. The only way is to set a good example and do so consistently for a long time.

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Ain't gonna happen

Lou.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 10:00:10 AM EST

none

when a new President (and probably a Democratic President) takes office.

As much as I wish I shared your optimism I fear we have another 4 years of a republican president when they put Bush out to pasture.  This is going to be the meanest and dirtiest election ever...and when it comes to dirty and mean, the GOP is hard to beat.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Ain't gonna happen

pO157.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 10:22:58 AM EST

none

It is ridiculous that people base personal characteristics on who they vote for, but it happens all the time. One commentator this weekend from MSNBC was talking about Huckabee campaigning in Iowa. The reporter said almost everybody who meets him ends up committing to vote for him because he is such a "down to earth guy" and "easy to talk to."

What. The. Hell?

I don't want a president I can go have a beer with or hang out with on the front lawn and talk about football. If their policies suck, then I will not vote for that person. Why is the office of President turning into such a nationwide popularity contest?

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Simple answer

Lou.

Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 10:45:43 AM EST

none

Cynical too, but here it is....

We pick our presidents the way we pick our toilet paper...the way we would pick any consumer good.  Marketing is everything.  Sure, this toilet paper is soft, strong, and gives good value for the money...but that other brand has a cute baby on the wrapping.  Cute baby!  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Ain't gonna happen

skeptic.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 12:02:21 PM EST

none

The polls show that President Bush has an extremely low popularity, so I think that the American public has indeed noticed the many terrible failures of the Bush administration.  And as for the Republican party in general, it has had an absolutely amazing series of sex scandals, failures, resignations and criminal prosecutions.  If this is not enough for the voters to desire a change of government, then America can officially be declared brain dead, and taken off life support.

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Re: Ain't gonna happen

thefadd.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 05:37:25 PM EST

none

If you go on the premise that Hillary is the most polarizing candidate out there right now, then it's little surprise that Standard Democratic Candidate (in the name of Barrack Obama), does better--significantly better--against all Republican candidates. Or do Republicans actually prefer Obama's positions?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Ain't gonna happen

skeptic.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 10:00:53 AM EST

none

Well it is interesting that there is a poll showing Hillary losing to McCain in a hypothetical election, so I guess it is a bit early for me to regard a Democratic victory in 2008 as a foregone conclusion.  And I do agree that Hillary is the most polarizing candidate.  But I would also note that the past 7 years of the Bush Presidency have already polarized the country to a far greater extent than Hillary Clinton has.  In a certain sense, Hillary is just the focal point for the polarization that already exists.

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Re: Difficult Choices

novy.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 at 11:48:42 PM EST

none

Democratic Party remains internationalist, just as it was in 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, and 1990s. But rank and file of Democratic Party has become neo-isolationist, and anti-war sentiment among left-Democrats has become more important than any other issue to them. No wonder so many left-Democrats, including Dennis Kucinich, openly admire Ron Paul, whom they absolutely believe would withdraw from Iraq and not even consider attacking Iran or anywhere else, even though he opposes abortion rights, universal health care, and even Social Security.

Fissures in Republican Party's coalition have become transparent in this presidential election campaign, yet Republicans crave authority and so instinctively rally together when their leader, even one as unpopular as Bush, gets challenged. Even though many Republicans wonder whether Bush foreign policy really makes sense, they will do whatever it takes to avoid his humiliation at hands of Democratic enemies. By comparison, fissures in Democratic Party's coalition have remained largely unexamined, yet since Democrats disdain authority they instinctively shoot at one another as readily as they shoot at Bush. For those who expected Democrats to lead their country out of Iraq, leadership will remain hard to come by and they will become increasingly disappointed, and some will become embittered.

But I still disagree that your country should remain in Iraq rather than planning to depart as quickly as possible. Neither Bush nor any other Republican or hawk offers any victory conditions or any other way to measure victory, either because they really don't know what their country hopes to accomplish in Iraq aside from saving face, or because they can't bring themselves to admit publicly that their only rational reason to stay in Iraq after Saddam Hussein fell was to seize and maintain control of Iraqi oil supplies. But when you spend $1 trillion and thousands of lives on cheap energy, that energy no longer comes cheap. Your country needs to find some way to produce what energy it needs domestically rather than continuing to pursue policies that require endless and ultimately futile military deployments in countries where Americans get hated and resisted.    

At last, it doesn't matter if Iraqi violence declines. Iraq's Shias only pretend to like you, and only Iran can control Shia militias. Iraq's Sunnis pretend to like you only because al-Qaeda was even worse, but you should understand that you can't count on their loyalty 15 minutes after you stop paying them. (See "Charlie Wilson's War" for case in point.) Kurds might have remained loyal to you, and might have agreed to let your troops remain in region (although you would have been foolish to take up that offer anyway) until you started letting Turks bomb them every few days. In Vietnam you had one military victory after another for years, but it never really helped you, and that same dynamic works in Iraq now.

Iraq poses no meaningful threat to US security, whether it stays together or collapses in chaos. "Al-Qaeda in Iraq" has no interests outside Iraq. Rag-tag bands of outlaw gunmen for hire don't and can't ever pose existential threats to most powerful country on Earth. "A wave of new attacks against the US" remains hallucinatory, like Iraqi WMDs. Face it, you remain in Iraq for oil, and oil only, yet your very presence probably reduces amounts of oil that Iraq will produce and sell. Your desperation to maintain "control" over oil supplies even if that control weakens you economically, your addiction to energy from unstable countries that hate you, doesn't help you, it hurts you.

Neither sudden withdrawal from Iraq nor any other changes in policy will help you unless and until you commit your economic and technological power to cutting your apron strings to big oil. Change over to hydrogen, "clean coal", nuclear, windmills, solar, natural gas, or even North American sources of oil and choices become easy, and your problems quickly solve themselves. US has incredibly bright economic future as soon as you decide that big oil doesn't deserve to own and operate your government, doesn't deserve to be subsidised with giant military and intelligence budgets and no-win wars. Will Democrats or Republicans have sheer nerve to do what needs to be done to save your country? Your friends hope so, and your enemies laugh at you as you continue to suck up to countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.    

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