If Pakistan looked set to be taken over by Muslim extremists, even if US didn't act India almost certainly would. Do these people really want that?
By now, that answer should be obvious. Some do, but not many. Most are interested in power, and in achieving power based on fundamentalist Islam. In other words, as close to absolute power as possible, and in a society which isn't equipped to publicize or otherwise act to prevent abuses of power.
Do they believe themselves invulnerable from such attacks?
That's the wrong question. It's less a belief in invulnerability, and more a belief in inevitability. They think that they will win a global civilization conflict -- some because they drink the "Muslims are God's Chosen" Kool-aid, others because they see the West as a decadent culture unwilling to defend itself.
If so, real answer to extremist threats lies not in confronting them militarily but to make it impossible for them to impact other countries outside their cultural borders.
Yes! Now, how do we do that in a way which doesn't infringe on their civil rights?
But that approach requires getting closer to countries like Russia and China, not pushing them into arms of extremists by judging them for not being Western enough.
This implies that Russia and China want to be gotten closer to, and that we can do so without significantly changing our own culture. Neither of those are necessarily true.
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Re: Next Door In India
Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 06:01:20 PM EST
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"They think that they will win a global civilization conflict -- some because they drink the 'Muslims are God's Chosen' Kool-aid, others because they see the West as a decadent culture unwilling to defend itself."
In other words, Muslim extremists have jettisoned all rationality, allowing decisions to be made in their guts rather than in their heads. But no matter what they think or feel, that approach will harm them rather than help them. If their bottom line truly amounts to "I would rather be dead than fail to conquer world", they will weaken over time rather than strengthen.
Refusing to trade with countries doesn't infringe on their "civil rights". If US didn't need Muslim oil and told them they could shove it, Muslim extremists and religious fanatics would become laughable threat, confined to their own backyard. But your government cares more about international oil company profits than security of its own people. If your government believed its own World War 3 rhetoric, it would already be acting to cut off legs of oil-sponsored terror around world by converting to any other type of energy for as many things as possible on emergency basis, but instead it sends troops to conquer sand dunes at cost of trillions. Ever greater numbers even of your Republicans (like Huckabee) understand that oil has become US' Achilles heel, that pumping up oil-producing powers like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, and Russia amounts to treason against your country.
China has already been bailing out New York banking institutions with its huge cache of dollars. They obviously want to deal with you. Russia was ready to come on board for your War on Terror until you started stationing troops on their borders and threatening them with missile defence systems in their former colonies in eastern Europe. Stop screwing with them and just maybe they'll stop screwing with you. Unless of course all that War on Terror and World War stuff really amounts to BS and propaganda designed to bamboozle your insular and religion-driven masses, and your government really only intends to pretend Muslims threaten you until they find some more believable reason to raid your Treasury for weapons and repeal your Constitution, like superpower China or revived Russia.
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Re: Next Door In India
Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 06:36:52 PM EST
3.00 (interesting)
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Russia was ready to come on board for your War on Terror until you started stationing troops on their borders and threatening them with missile defence systems in their former colonies in eastern Europe. Stop screwing with them and just maybe they'll stop screwing with you.
This is the problem with democracy (or one of the problems, anyway). These policies have been pretty much been those of the Bush administration - put another president in office and we might have had much more reasonable activities the last few years. Unfortunately, foreign policy is rarely the #1 issue for voters (even in an election dominated by war, like 2004 was). Economic issues are usually #1 and, at least in the US, "values" issues come in #2. Foreign policy is usually a long distant third. It was barely even on the radar in the 2000 presidential campaign. Odds are pretty good that economics will dominate again this time around, considering the housing downturn. If you're a voter who believes in the foreign policy of one party, but the economic policy of the other party, what do you do? I'm sure British voters had much the same problem in their recent elections. Blair's domestic policy was well liked in Britain, but his foreign policy was wildly unpopular. Canadians had just the opposite problem - they like the foreign policy of the Liberal's, but were completely turned off by the rampant corruption of the Chretien years. Perhaps the French system, with a President that has a lot of power over foreign policy, but less domestic power, and a Prime Minister with a lot of domestic power but little control over foreign policy, is the answer?
Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.
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Re: Next Door In India
Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 09:16:14 PM EST
3.50 (astute, interesting)
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This is the problem with democracy
Your premise is flawed. Since he wasn't elected (except by a five-to-four vote) Bush is not a product of democracy, so his actions can't be laid at the feet of democracy.
Instead, this is a demonstration of what happens when democracy is flouted.
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Re: Next Door In India
Thu Dec 27, 2007 at 07:23:04 PM EST
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Having your President mainly lead in foreign policy and having another figure (elected Chairman of Federal Reserve?) serve as leader in economic matters seems appealing, but changes like that really don't happen under US Constitutional system, and even if they had, Bush would have been busy alienating countries like Russia for last 7 years anyway.
Still, all Democrats seem to want better relations with major nations, and even Huckabee talks about Bush "bunker mentality" in foreign policy, so maybe changes can be expected no matter who takes over in 2009.