Etcetera

Trees And Things...Branching Out

Board of Directors.

Posted to Etcetera on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 03:32:32 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

In its final meeting of 2006, the TnT Board formed a committee to explore avenues for testing out the effectiveness of google's "adwords" advertising in increasing the size of the TnT community.

There are two components to this advertising and the board would like to solicit your input on both. First, adwords are the key words that would return Treesandthings' test ads when googled by a websurfer. These can be any word or combination of words, like "blog," "citizen journalist," or "beelzebub's lover." Second, the ads themselves are the copy websurfers read when google returns the surfer's search results. The ads must include a 25 character title, two 35 character lines, and conform to google's guidelines. Please view the current list of ads and adwords and comment below if so moved.

The funds for the advertising test are being donated by board members specifically for the test run. No general site funds will be used for the test. The approval of the test run does not commit the Board to the long term use of ads in anyway. To be clear, this test does NOT mean that ads will begin to appear on TnT. Thank you for your input in helping our Trees And Things community to grow!

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by Board of Directors, advertising, meta, Treesandthings.com, google, adwords (all tags)

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8

Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

Thalia.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:29:48 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

How about instead of advertising, we just have folks drop TnT links in their blog comments, or using it as their home page or sig line elsewhere?  I've done it a couple fo times, when I passed on links that I thought were interesting.  I don't know if anyone followed them (the disadvantage of not paying for ads), but I concur with the other posters that advertising a free service seems wrong.  Non-profits mostly advertise for donors, not for needy people to help.

Thalia

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

port1080.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:58:22 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

How about instead of advertising, we just have folks drop TnT links in their blog comments, or using it as their home page or sig line elsewhere?

There are two problems with this - first, a lot of us are already doing it and it hasn't made that much difference, and second, you walk a very fine line when doing this, and can often end up being accused of spamming. I agree it's a good idea, but I don't think it's the total solution, either.

Non-profits mostly advertise for donors, not for needy people to help.

Is this really the case? Pennsylvania heavily advertises its Children's Health Insurance program to make working parents aware that they're eligible for the benefits. Drawing on our discussion of Open Source Software (essentially a non-profit enterprise), the Mozilla Foundation (a non-profit much like TnT) is heavily advertising Firefox right now to try to gain more users. Adwords may not be the best way to go, but we definitely need to do more to raise awareness of the site, and I don't think there's any reason that we should specifically avoid advertising, so long as it proves effective.

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:10:43 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Before it's possible to advertise.. it must be determined what TnT is... is it just Plastic without the absentee landowner? Or is there something more?

Once you define what TnT is and what it will be.. then you have to get that message out...

"What do YOU want to talk about?"
"Trees and things..."

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

thefadd.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:35:38 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

That's definitely one of the concepts we were debating as a board as well -- that we're not yet defined enough and advertising now would be putting putting the cart before the horse. Seven months in to the site's existence, though, and still trying to define ourselves makes me wonder which is the horse and which is the cart. Long and short of it, that's why I think testing the waters of advertising without committing ourselves to it is a good thing to try out.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 08:14:20 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Seven months isn't all that long a time.. I wouldn't even say it's fully functional. Getting more members is a great idea though... I'm just not convinced that Adsense is the way to go.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:38:29 PM EST

none

I was going to suggest viral marketing like that.. but... I don't have any sort of place to drop a link to so I can't really suggest something that I could take no part in. right?

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

Thalia.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:59:07 PM EST

none

Don't tell me this is the only place you snark.  Is it really?

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:07:30 PM EST

none

Hah hah... funny there. Just here and Plastic.. Plastic because of what it was, TnT because of what it can be.. haven't found anything similar anywhere else.. everything else is ... echo chambers...

Tipping Sacred Cows

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sorry couldn't resist

thefadd.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:29:38 PM EST

none

...echo...

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: sorry couldn't resist

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:30:58 PM EST

none

Ok so.. it does sway pretty liberal/Deemocrat.. but it's not as bad as the truly partisan forums..

Tipping Sacred Cows

29

Publicity huh?

nmiguy.

Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 10:07:16 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Well my 2 cents is that the board should save some of the best comments made from  threads, the memorable ones and store them away.  And then to advertise the site, you repost the best comments that would draw in people.  If this is done, then members become a part of the advertising in a way, their handles become quasi-celebrities.  People would actually come to trees and things to read the comments of some of its members whose best commenst become immortalized.

There's nothing wrong with taking pride at the best you have to offer.  Unlike Plastic where too many people take pride in reaching the lowest common denominator.  

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

SlyBaldGuy.

Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:21:58 AM EST

4.50 (informative, astute)

Before you invest in Adwords, you should look into advertising with StumbleUpon.  It's only 5 cents per user that gets sent your site and you can have them target users that are interested in politics.  I would recommend picking some articles that will entice others to join and have those the target pages of the advertising.  The cool thing about StumbleUpon is that if people like the article and give it a thumbs up, they will send you free traffic on top of the paid traffic.

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

keta.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 03:41:08 PM EST

none

Like:

Trees And Things/No fish, no barrel,/just a smoking gun.
If you were looking/For intelligent discourse/you'd be home by now.
treesandthings.com: Trees...and things. Just accept that it's a zen concept.
Trees And Things/Because we already know/that you hate the DMV.
dig up an argument, plant an idea. treesandthings.com: the intelligent discussion site.

Ambivalent:

all the rest, save...

Dislike:

the last two.  Needlessly mocking puffers and Bostonians...now if you had one line that mocked BOTH...  

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 03:50:44 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

dig up an argument, plant an idea.
I love it.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 03:46:12 PM EST

none

Umm.. paying for advertising when you have a product that is not for sale just doesn't make sense... What  revenue streams do we have? If we have no method of making money, there is no possible reason to pay for more visitors, especially ones that aren't necessarily looking for what we are offering... unless you are running this as a charity scam.. get more people to fork over more money to pay for all the extra bandwidth.. kinda sad..

I'd prefer see ads appear on TnT.. TnT approved ads, of course... (say put in an ads section.. everyone gets to see the live ads, and vote as to whether they want to put into circulation.. and not banner type ads.. those disgust me).

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

port1080.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:12:29 PM EST

none

Umm.. paying for advertising when you have a product that is not for sale just doesn't make sense

We're not paying for advertising to generate revenue, we're doing it to raise the profile of the site. Plenty of non-profits advertise their services, because if people don't know that they're there they can't take advantage of them. Right now, very few people who might want to use our service are aware that it even exists. Our current user base is almost entirely cannibalized from Plastic - and very few new faces have shown up since Plastic returned. People won't just stumble upon the site by magic, and we can't expect that people who are currently content to read the site and post an occasional story or article will for some reason decide to become much more active posters (indeed, it's more likely that the reverse will happen, and that our readership will slowly decrease).

This is doubly important because we desperately need more users - both to write comments and to write stories. Five or six people have written 90% of the stories that we've run in the last couple of months - that's not a sustainable amount of submitters. If one or two get busy or go on vacation, we run into a serious drought (as is happening right now). Compare that number to Plastic, where at least 12 different people (based on what's running right now) have submitted stories in just the last few weeks. If we want to raise the number of people participating, we absolutely need to advertise, at least until we reach a large enough user-base that we start to gain fresh blood through word-of-mouth.

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

permazorch.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:17:55 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Five or six people have written 90% of the stories...
And they are damn good stories, to the point of being intimidating.

...gain fresh blood through word-of-mouth.
Well, I do like fresh blood in my mouth; mine, yours, whomever.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:28:24 PM EST

4.00

How about actively promoting individual stories then.. don't promote the site, promote the content. Wahtever.. go ahead, personally I just think that's it's a complete waste.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

thefadd.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:53:20 PM EST

5.00

How do you mean promote the content? That sounds like a good idea. Like each story as its posted, try to run an ad for our discussion of that particular story?

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

port1080.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 05:03:35 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Like each story as its posted, try to run an ad for our discussion of that particular story?

That may be a good idea, particularly for certain hot topic stories. For example, we could go back and pick out a dozen or so stories over the last couple of months that have had 30+ comments, and then buy adwords that would match up with that story. That way people would do the search, see the ad for the story and hopefully read the story to learn more about the topic, and then stick around to discuss other things. An example of this might be the Open Source story that's running now. We could buy an adword for, say "desktop open source software" and have the text of the ad be something like "find a discussion of the best desktop open source software at Treesandandthings.com" with a link to that discussion.

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Yes!

permazorch.

Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 07:08:23 AM EST

none

Port 1080 has it, I think!
That OSS story is incredibly helpful, and practical. I'm gonna put it in my .sig(s) wherever I go (all 2.5 sites) to ask/give advice about tech issues.

I also frequent a couple of movie discussion boards.
For that, I'll link to a good movie riff, here.

I use delicious & Stumbleupon, too, but not religiously.

The key here (everywhere, really), I think, is to personally endorse what we love. For instance, I prefer NYC tap water (It really is quite good!) to Coke or Pepsi (and they taste better than my hometown tapwater). You see what I mean? No one (but you) can fuck with your own personal integrity. That was the central thrust of last year's V for Vendetta and Inside Man.

A lot of people on this here interweb use the computer on a daily basis. Some even got one (or more -- Can you believe it?!) in their own homes.

It's only been 7 months. Let's not worry about how we're defined except by what we are (a Yogi Berra moment), have been and want.

I'm a cretinous liberal who loves movies, music and computer games. I want to make my own micro-movies. I came here during the Plastic Blackout, and I ping-pong between here & there. This place is sweet, humble & loveable. The writing is better here, too. But Plastic has the Zazz (TNT is to Plastic, as Lisa is to Bart). There's no shame in being derived from Plastic, and this place will define itself, in the months to come. WE just have to be what we love.

A little color wouldn't hurt, though.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

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Re: Yes!

rEvolution inAction.

Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 07:43:57 AM EST

none

I want to make my own micro-movies.
We need to collaborate.. or not. I just want to see every possible storyline filmed so that Hollywood has to buy scripts off of amateurs if they want to avoid any copyright laws.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:03:27 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

If you read blogs (which I don't).. then when replying to something, include a link to something you said that's similar on TnT. Use it in your sig (I've now added a link to TnT in my Plastic sig). Promote it by creating more websites with links to it (blogs, whatever).. every link makes TnT more relevant. Find out who our competition is so far as providing a non-partisan yet highly political forum, join in a couple of discussions there and leave a link. And fine some classic conservatives.. every story needs a villain.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

3fingerspointback.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 05:41:27 PM EST

none

That's doable right now, with the digg/newsvine/delicious/reddit links below the story.  We've also got an "email this story to a friend" button somewhere down the pipeline.  We expected advertising to be controversial, which is why we're not drawing the funds from the pot we use to keep the lights on in this place.

(is 3fingerspointback)

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

Thalia.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 06:56:24 PM EST

none

Where are the Reddit links?  I should know this, shouldn't I.  But there are a few stories I would love to have promoted on Reddit/Digg.

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

3fingerspointback.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 07:49:07 PM EST

none

Below the "tags" area and above the comment view preferences:

Add this story to: newsvine reddit digg delicious

(is 3fingerspointback)

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

thefadd.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 08:28:44 PM EST

none

Oh, the icons below the story before the comments. Gosh that took me a long time...

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

Thalia.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 08:38:55 PM EST

none

Ah. They're only icons, and I'm not clueful about icons.

5

Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

permazorch.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 04:12:42 PM EST

none

Trees And Things/No fish, no barrel,/just a smoking gun.
Trees And Things/Because everyone wants to be/in a cabal.
Treesandthings.com/Put down the bong. History is happening.
Those are the ones I like.

Why are we advertising, again?
Y'know, if we used a couple of more colors, the problem would be solved. People like color. It's a well-known fact.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

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Re: Trees And Things...Branching Out

logan.

Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 11:54:41 AM EST

none

I'm loving this idea. Efficient advertising is a major plus here, as we don't have a huge advertising budget. Can you walk us through the concept in more detail?

-=Logan
Research, facts, a Republican needs not these things.

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