I can't remember who it was that pointed this out, but it was over a year ago:  The big problem with torture on 24 is not how frequently it's used or how practical the results are, but how redemptive the results are.  Torturing other people is portrayed as a kind of test of Our Heros' faith in their own cause, and it is always rewarded.  Perversely, this happens even when the object of torture is innocent of any wrongdoing--see for example Audrey's brother, who only provided a useful memory when the incompetent questions were ditched for the pain train.  Or Graem last week, when he didn't cough up the info Jack wanted, but did provide some closure.  Even more perversely, the goodness of these wrongly tortured people is measured by how quickly they forgive their tormentors for dominating them.  Audrey's ex-husband was taking a bullet for Jack just a few hours after Bauer stopped electrocuting him.

Monday's episode forged disturbing new ground in this respect, as we saw for the first time in the series that terrorists could also use torture to turn a Good Guy to their own cause*.  Now torture is no longer useful only for those with enough purity of vision to see "what must be done".  Instead, it's the tried-and-true method for getting anyone to do whatever you want whenever you want, but you can only use it if you're cool enough.  There was also an ugly moment with Jack, when Morris reveals that he cooperated with Fayed.  The disgust in Jack's voice betrays a sick truth--the real reason he uses torture so quickly is because when he sees other men broken, it assures him that they are lesser men than he is.

Before we get around to my solution to this problem, I will let you all in on the secret of 24:  It's not an action show, and it's not political propaganda, no matter how much Surnow would like it to be.  What 24 is, is a soap opera made for guys.  And not even a particularly well-disguised soap opera, either.  Plotlines on the show have included a mystery baby, loveable characters mercilessly killed off, evil characters thought dead and gone come back to life, evil characters who turn out to be long-lost relatives of the good guys, a sugary sweet female character designed for the audiences to hate and want die, likeable characters who are dying of wasting disease, and even, so help me great Czernobog, even a bout of temporary amnesia.  I remember a couple years ago seeing a list of the non-USA World's five most favorite and five least favorite American TV shows.  24 was in the top five, and Falcon Crest was in the bottom five.  The irony was delicious, as Surnow and co-creator Cochran met each other while writing episodes for the latter show.  In the DVD extras for season one of 24, they single out the old soap as a show that has especially informed their approach to writing.  I thought this was painfully obvious, but apparently there really are people out there that let their opinions be shaped by what they see on Fantasyland Action Hour.

But anyway, here's how to use 24 to shut people up about how great torture is without sacrificing the water cooler aspect:  Some self-important asshole we'll call "Dave" is running CTU.  It's early in our day, and people are still trying to find out about the North Korean saboteurs and whatever they're up to.  They get a solid lead on a young Korean woman named Soon Hee Chong and bring her in.  Bitch gets uppity, starts whining about her rights, clock's ticking down, time for Dave to "do what must be done", if you know what I mean.  Except here's the catch: You know that "iocene pentathol" they're so fond of using at CTU?  Turns out the girl has an extreme allergic reaction to the stuff.  Barely a quarter of a cc into the treatment, and her whole body's swelling up.  Skin gets super-red, then breaks out in a rash, then actually starts to burst in places from the swelling.  Sixty seconds later, and she's very messily dead.  And now the twist--Dave gets an eyes-only sitrep update from Intelligence.  Turns out Soon Hee didn't spell her name Chong when she showed up in the LA, she's spelling it Jung.  Stretch that plot thread for eight episodes or so as we watch Dave replace the traditional Mole element with frantic asscovering, as he twists whatever intelligence comes his way to retroactively implicate Chong in the conspiracy.  That's got drama all over it, it's something new for the show, and it's no less believable than CTU's past exploits.  Send me my check.

* I was amused to see that one of the methods used by the evil terrorists to torture Morris was the waterboarding style endorsed by Dick Cheney.

(is 3fingerspointback)

I'm not going to be that asshole that comes into a conversation with the "oh so hip comments" of 24?  What's that? I don't own a TV.  Is that how the plebs entertain themselves these days? and the like.  But, I'm going to be pretty close to that in saying, I just watched the first season of 24 and stopped after that.  I couldn't really muster the suspension of disbelief that something like the first season would happen again to the same guy.  Ditto for however many seasons since then.  

I did like the first season, though.  I don't remember there being any torture.  The fact that torture plays a large role in the following seasons, along with my inability to suspend disbelief, is another reason I don't watch it any more.  I remember getting a link to Eight Lessons of Torture sometime back when the military's right to torture terrorist suspects was being so vehemently argued for by our Great Leader's second in command.  I take a peak at the page every so often when the topic comes up in other discussions just to remind myself of the reasons behind that sick feeling I get in my gut when thinking about torture and the people who say its a-o.k. to torture people.

All I really want to know is what the people who answer yes (to the question: would you condone torture if ti will stop an imminent threat?) have to say about the military in this case.

Oh and.. does anyone know if Jack Bauer's brother ended up torturing Jack Bauer?

Tipping Sacred Cows

Man, catching flack from the peaceniks on the left and even more flack from the Religious Right...it must be exhausting.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

How is "you'd do it to help your family" an answer to the statement that "torture doesn't work"?  Yes, most of us would do bad things to help our family.  But no, torture still doesn't give useful information, even if you're doing it for all the red, white, and blue, apple pie, mother, and baby reasons.  Surnow has some reality comprehension issues, it seems.

Thalia