Etcetera

Wingnuts Sack Book For Single Word

Admit The Woods.

Posted to Etcetera on Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 01:54:19 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Children's books have come a long way since primary crayola tones and fluffy pink bunnies. Or have they? When you stop to consider everything from the brothers Grimm via The Hobbit, Watership Down, His Dark Materials right through to the Harry Potter series, you could just as easily argue that -- even when it's covert or repressed -- the thematic subtext of a lot of children's literature throughout history has often been decidedly dark.

But where is the line and who decides? Most of us would balk at a graphic rape scene in a book aimed at, say, 6-year-olds. Or lurid portrayals of torture for 8-year-olds. But what about male genitalia in a book targeted toward 10-year-olds? And not just any book, but a book that has just achieved the children's literature equivalent of selection for the Oprah Book Club. The offending word, apparently, is "scrotum," and its appearance on the very first page of Susan Patron's The Higher Power Of Lucky has managed to tie plenty of librarians' nuts in a knot, [registration required] one of whom even compared the author's "envelope-pushing" tactics to those of Howard Stern.

Since context is important, it should be noted that the scrotum in question belongs to a dog. The novel's protagonist overhears a story about a rattlesnake's bite to said pooch's jewel pouch. Here is the money quote:

"Scrotum sounded to Lucky like something green that comes up when you have the flu and cough too much [...] it sounded medical and secret, but also important."

Is there something intrinsically wrong with mentioning the names of body parts in front of children, or does the response of educators and librarians say more about their own discomfort? We can all laugh at the (over)reactions here, but where do we draw the line at what constitutes (un)acceptable content in a children's book?

Tags: written by Admit The Woods, edited by Port1080, censorship, library (all tags)

This story: 30 comments (6 from subqueue)
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1

What Word Should She Have Used?

keta.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 03:11:36 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Berries?  Crackers?  Knackers?  Nut Sack?  Quarter Pounders?  Yarbles?

I was about twelve when I first heard the word "scrotum."  My Dad had been on a mountain sheep hunt a couple of months prior, and the taxidermist had sent him the small change purse he'd had made for my Mom...out of the sheep's scrotum.  When my Mom first saw her "pouch," complete with zipper, she couldn't stop laughing.  I asked what was so funny, and my Dad replied, "it's because the purse is made from the scrotum."

Well, I did what I've always done when I hear a word I don't know and have to find it out for myself - looked it up in a damn dictionary.

Perhaps that's the root of all this nauseating protectionism of children and real words for real body parts.  Nobody wants them to look in a dictionary, because people that learn they can easily find information for themselves aren't nearly as malleable as adults.*

*Naw, it's those ball-breaking religion fascists and their insistence that anything below the chin and above the shin is flat-out disgusting.  

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 04:38:04 PM EST

none

How about "leg" or "neck"?

The story opens with the dog being bitten by a snake. In the real life inspiration for the story, the snake bit the dog's balls. So the question really is: why did Patron feel compelled to include this detail in a work of children's fiction? Children's book are written with the design of advancing development, so the choice to include a sexual word for a pre-sexual audience looks suspicious.

In the best case scenario, Patron is just incompetent. I remember being about that age when hearing about Plasmatics' singer Wendy O. Williams use of the word "pud" as an insult. Once my friends and I figured out what it meant, it was weeks before we could prevent giggling just by hearing it. If so, that's the way to delegitimize your book, Ms. Patron; I'd recommend you follow it up with something equally profound, like a book of fart jokes.

In the worst case, she was deliberately trying to provoke a response through the inclusion of sexual imagery, either through the children or, as we're now seeing, with adults. If so, congratulations Ms. Patron, for displaying exactly the same kind of business acumen which makes Paris Hilton and the Girls Gone Wild videos so successful; I look forward to seeing your tits in Maxim.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

keta.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:04:04 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

I can't speak for you or your dog, but I think getting a snake bite in the bag would hurt a LOT more than a bite in the leg or neck.  Maybe that was her point.

And since when is the correct name for a body part "sexual."  What's so "sexual" about, "Gee honey, that's a nasty rash on your breasts.  I'm sorry you were allergic to that material."

That you consider the word scrotum "sexual" tells us more about you than about the word, gerry.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:22:41 PM EST

none

And since when is the correct name for a body part "sexual."

When it describes a sexual body part. But try it yourself: go up to a [male/female] work associate and say, "My! Your [penis/nipples] are quite erect today!" and see whether or not you get called out for making  inappropriate "sexual" comments.

That you consider the word scrotum "sexual" tells us more about you than about the word, gerry.

Yeah -- that I'm normal. The scrotum contains part of the male sexual reproduction organs, by definition.

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^ 9

Still can't see it.

Lou.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:47:12 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Years ok, when I taught at an alternative education high school, some of the kids and I were out playing softball between classes.  Since I'm not much of a runner, and since I'm kinda sneaky, I was asked to pitch.  The game moved along and a good time was had by all...until one of my students hit a line drive right to my Old Man.  Taking a hit to the Wedding Tackle is never fun and this was no exception.  To say that my Beans and Frank were throbing is an understatement.  The pain in my Berries and Twig was so great that I dropped to my knees*.

Later, on the accident report, I indicated that I had been struck a blow to my scrotum.  What else could I say?

*I still threw the kid out at first though...then I rolled over in the dirt and whimpered.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Still can't see it.

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:42:35 PM EST

none

A) That was high school, by which time children are at or past sexual maturity.

B) I'm pretty sure you filed the report with the high school administration, which is composed of adults.

C) I doubt that even with high schoolers, you'd feel comfortable using the word conversationally. "You've got a good scrotum there, kid" just doesn't have much general acceptance.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

dzetetes.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 06:02:28 PM EST

4.50 (brilliant, funny)

Some people have a foot fetish.  The fingers and hands can be used for sexual gratification, as can the fist.  The tongue and mouth are sexual body parts if the penis is, given that the penis does not serve an exclusively sexual function, either.  

So far, our new list of words that cannot be used in books for children:

foot/feet
finger(s)
hand(s)
fist(s)
tongue(s)
mouth(s)

Your post also indicates that you consider "nipples" a reference to a sexual body part as well.  I suggest you contact your elected representatives immediately to encourage them to draft legislation criminalizing the breastfeeding of infants for the sexual abuse it is.  Imagine those twisted mothers shoving a sexual body part in a child's mouth...it disgusts me.

Or does context matter?

 

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:47:10 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I suggest you contact your elected representatives immediately to encourage them to draft legislation criminalizing the breastfeeding of infants for the sexual abuse it is.  Imagine those twisted mothers shoving a sexual body part in a child's mouth...it disgusts me.

here

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

dzetetes.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 10:39:25 PM EST

none

Good lord.  

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:27:04 PM EST

none

Or does context matter?

Context does matter. In this case, the context is: an author, who has complete control over the language and direction of a story, chose to use both as a way to include a word outside most children's knowledge, and outside accepted vocabulary of the majority of similarly-marketed books. She forced the issue.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

dzetetes.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 10:33:17 PM EST

none

I was talking about the context in which the word was used in the story, not the real-world context in which the author chose to use it.  However, I suspect you purposely misconstrued my meaning since you don't really have a good explanation for why the word is so horrifying in the story's non-sexual context.

When I was in school, we had comprehensive sex-ed in the sixth grade.  I was 11 at the time.  We learned all of the proper names for the male and female genital anatomy and saw all of the colorful diagrams.  This book was written for 10-year-olds.  I'd hardly call that forcing the issue.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

Thalia.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 10:54:09 PM EST

none

Discussing erect nipples or penises IS inappropriate.  And if she had described how the dog was licking its balls & getting off, I would understand why it is considered sexual.  But we have had a workplace discussion about one of our partners being hit in the family jewels, in the company baseball game.  Was it a sexual discussion?  No.  In this context, the use of the word scrotum wasn't sexual.  Heck, we've discussed the neutering of pets, and even have sponsored a spay/neuter clinic.  Do you consider the discussion of that sponsorship to be sexual?

In other news, some other somewhat well known children's books include the word scrotum.  Quick.  Hide All Creatures Great and Small.  It's smut.

Thalia

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

Thalia.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 04:47:02 PM EST

none

What's the harm of including it?  I don't know about you, but I also went to the dictionary the first time I heard this word.  I think I was about the target age for this book, 11.  It's a medical word.  It's not like she's talking about his throbbing manhood or something.  

Children's books are mostly written for entertainment & to convince kids that reading is fun.  If you think kids' books are written for "advancing development" you clearly haven't spent any time in the children's book section of your local bookstore.  Most books focus on entertaining kids, not teaching them.  If including these types of words gets kids to read, it's all good.

Thalia

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:11:19 PM EST

none

What's the harm of including it?

About the same harm as a woman lawyer conducting a trial in a bikini. It won't make the world end. It won't cause any real damage to the children. What it will likely do is ensure that the children who read it will remember it as "the book about a dog's balls" and ignore the rest; hence my legitimacy complaint.

Most books focus on entertaining kids, not teaching them.

Focus and design are two different issues. Think of Picasso's "The Old Guitarist": the focus is a man with a guitar; the design is, well, blue. Children's books are written upon subjects which entertain, certainly. The architecture of their construction, however, is rather constrained -- sentence structure only so complex, vocabulary only so difficult. They are very much written to teach.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

Thalia.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:45:43 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Clearly you have been perusing a different set of books than I have.  With respect to this particular book, though, the reviews on Amazon do not say "hahah, balls!" they say "an interesting story."  It didn't win the Newberry Award because people couldn't stop giggling about balls.  It won because it was an interesting book, that was popular with kids, and well written.  I might add that a much larger factor in the book is the fact that the protagonist's mother dies, when the protagonist is a pre-teen.  But somehow reading the words "scrotum" is more scarring for kids than reading about a child whose mother dies & whose father is sufficiently "absentee" that he never makes an appearance?  

Thalia

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

shatov.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 at 02:56:23 AM EST

5.00

Please. The only people who will remember the book in this way are adults who are reading about this controversy. The children who are reading the book are likely to have forgotten about that bit by the end of the book, or will remember it as just a passing part of the book.

If adults don't flag something up as 'rude' for children, then children are unlikely to notice that it is 'rude'. Treat the anecdote in a straight-forward manner, without batting an eyelid, and the child won't notice any big issues with the sentence.

A woman lawyer conducting a trial in a bikini is reinforcing degrading stereotypes, while sentences about a child who doesn't know the meaning of the word 'scrotum' is just a harmless story about how useful a good dictionary really is.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

dzetetes.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:49:09 PM EST

none

the choice to include a sexual word for a pre-sexual audience looks suspicious.

Scrotum is a sexual word?  How about epididymis?  Vas deferens?  Prostate? (I'm getting turned on).  Those last three body parts are involved in sexual function.  If a 65 year old man complains about the side effects of the medication he takes for his benign prostatic hyperplasia, is he making a sexual comment?  If his 5-year-old grandchild is in the room, is he making an inappropriate sexual comment?

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:34:03 PM EST

none

Scrotum is a sexual word?  How about epididymis?  Vas deferens?  Prostate?

Blah, blah. Spare me the hair-splitting. The issue at hand is appropriateness of language for children. When any of the above start to appear in Richard Scarry books, I'll concede the point.

If his 5-year-old grandchild is in the room, is he making an inappropriate sexual comment?

If that level of detail is directed to the 5-year-old -- you know, the way a children's book is -- then I would question its appropriateness, sexual or no.

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:48:12 PM EST

5.00 (funny, astute, funny)

It was a dog's scrotum.. that makes it bestiality, not sexuality.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: What Word Should She Have Used?

dzetetes.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 10:57:46 PM EST

none

The issue at hand is appropriateness of language for children.

And relevant to the issue at hand is whether the anatomical name for a body part involved in sexual function, but used in a non-sexual context, is inherently inappropriate for children old enough to already be aware of the cruder names for many of those body parts.

If that level of detail is directed to the 5-year-old -- you know, the way a children's book is -- then I would question its appropriateness, sexual or no.

But the question of whether such a statement is inherently sexual (a question you chose not to directly answer) is relevant to your argument, since you're saying that the use of the word scrotum in this book is inappropriate because it is, in your words, a sexual body part (apparently in any context).

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

3

Re: Wingnuts Sack Book For Single Word

port1080.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 03:37:10 PM EST

5.00

but where do we draw the line at what constitutes (un)acceptable content in a children's book?

The line should be up to parents to draw on their own. Considering we have the right to free press, there is no way that parents can protect their little kiddies from dangerous words anyway. Any enterprising kid can always go to the public library (or Barnes and Noble, for that matter) and read the book there if he/she feels like it. I have no problem with conservative parents groups informing each other of this books "shocking" content so they can keep their little precious's hands off of it, but this should be in any and every library in the country, so those of us who aren't so sensitive can offer it to our children if we wish.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Wingnuts Sack Book For Single Word

rEvolution inAction.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:40:42 PM EST

none

Ok.. I need to know.. why would anyone go to the library? If I need to read a book. I download it.

Tipping Sacred Cows

10

Here's why scrotum should be used.

MayorBob.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 05:23:46 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

It's important that children learn the essentials of this sort of stuff at an early age and trying to sugarcoat and euphemize sex for them can have tragic results.  Take the cautionary tale of Chad and Ashley.

Chad and Ashley were two bright and vital eight-year-olds who played together all the time.  One day Ashley entered her parents' bedroom unannounced.  There on top of the bed were Mommy and Daddy in coitus, a vision of thrusting, heaving, moaning and sighing flesh.  When they noticed Ashley transfixed in the doorway, Mommy hurriedly covered up and decided to sugarcoat the whole affair.

When asked what they had been doing, Ashley's Mommy said, "uh, er, um, we were playing a game!"  "What's the name of the game, Mommy?" asked Ashley.  "Um, erh, ah, we were parking Daddy's car in Mommy's garage.  Now go out and play."

Hours later, Ashley's Mommy and Daddy were watching TV in the rec room and they saw Ashley and Chad enter the house.  Ashley told her Mommy and Daddy that she and Chad were going up to her room to play.  "That's nice, honey.  Play nice."

It was no more than 20 minutes later that they heard a blood-curdling scream come from Ashley's room and Chad unevenly bolted down the stairs and out the door screaming in agony.  When Ashley came to the stairs, her mother asked her, "what happened, what happened?"  To which Ashley replied: "We were parking Chad's car in my garage but his rear wheels didn't fit, so we cut them off."

And that, dear children is why we must think of the children when we decide to be less than candid and honest with them.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

28

Lost in translation

Lou.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 11:39:04 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

Rewriting the offending part...

And lo! It came to pass that as Lucky was sitting down, a snake did rise up and bite him in the place that would normally be covered by a bathing suit if Lucky was a boy and not a boy dog.  And had Lucky been a boy instead of a boy dog, he would have known that Officer Friendly says that boys and girls should never let anyone touch the parts of their bodies that would normally be covered by a bathing suit...even by SNAKES.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

30

Slippery hope

Steve Urkel.

Wed Feb 21, 2007 at 12:59:52 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny)

This book paves the way for the publication of my masterpiece of children's literature, Harry Balzac and the Taint of Mystery.

2

Re: Wingnuts Sack Book For Single Word

nmiguy.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 03:28:13 PM EST

none

These wingnuts are so bizarre, I almost laughed my scrotum off when I read this write up.  

5

Scrotum is delicious

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 04:46:00 PM EST

none

My favorite part of the NYT article:

"The word is just so delicious," Ms. Patron said. "The sound of the word to Lucky is so evocative."
I think that's one librarian who should be looking into another of Los Angeles' business sectors for meaningful employment.

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^ 5

Somebody's got a hang up, apparently.

secretpath.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 08:08:52 PM EST

none

Seeing as how she was speaking in her capacity as the author of the book, it's hardly grounds for dismissal. You seem to be reading everything here as sexually deviant, when in fact every use of the word, in the book as well as in the author's statements, is sexually neutral.

The fact that the author finds "scrotum" a funny word is testament to the fact that "scrotum" is a funny word, in spite of whatever the moralizing prudes might think.

Everything that needs to be said has already been said, but since no one was listening, we must begin again. -Andre Gide

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Re: Somebody's got a hang up, apparently.

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 09:06:57 PM EST

none

it's hardly grounds for dismissal.

Sorry, secretpath. I wasn't advocating her being fired. I intended to imply that she should go into porn.

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Also -- it's called "subtext"

gerrymander.

Tue Feb 20, 2007 at 10:01:20 PM EST

none

every use of the word, in the book as well as in the author's statements, is sexually neutral.

Granted. Nevertheless, words carry meaning beyond the most neutral definitions. Would you accept without question an author using "faggot" in a new children's book, even if they referred to a piece of wood? Would you accept without question a new children's book set in the early 20th century which referred to "nigger babies" candy, because the author only intended historical accuracy? Even presuming no anti-gay or anti-black agenda, wouldn't you question the appropriateness of those words in a book aimed at a 9-to-12 year old demographic?

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