What we are seeing here is the classic case of someone who only knows how to ditch it out and knows nothing about graceful ways of having it ditched on you.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Down in history with Jimmy the Greek.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

I bow before your Web Fu, dzetetes.

The second one turned out to be gay

The homo governor broke a leg, too:

...McGreevey suffered a broken femur in his right leg in a jogging mishap on a Cape May beach...Exactly what happened the night McGreevey suffered his injury has been a topic of speculation for years. Some allege that McGreevey was not, as he reported, with his ex-wife, but was in fact walking with Golan Cipel, the former aide McGreevey claims he had an affair with

Well, it was McGreevey I was referring to Ken.  But, in honor of his proud admission that he was a "gay American" I just left it at calling him gay.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Why should women athletes get a free ride/easier time vs. other public figures subject to similar levels of ridicule.

I would have the same reaction to a similar comment about any public figure.

As for the comment being racist, I think it pretty well matches the definition, regardless of Imus's intent. I also don't think it's funny to insult the players' looks. Don't you think women athletes have a bit of an extra burden in that regard? Sure, commentators undoubtedly make casual remarks about the physical attributes of male athletes, but please don't tell me that their looks or their sexual appeal or lack thereof is anywhere near the level of importance attached to women in sports.

I would agree that this is a lot of media pumping. But I think, as you wondered as well, that the racist/sexist combo here, along with the sympathy for the team, elevated this into a circus, one that will continue now that the players have said that they want to meet with Imus in private.

As for the comment being racist, I think it pretty well matches the definition, regardless of Imus's intent. I also don't think it's funny to insult the players' looks. Don't you think women athletes have a bit of an extra burden in that regard? Sure, commentators undoubtedly make casual remarks about the physical attributes of male athletes, but please don't tell me that their looks or their sexual appeal or lack thereof is anywhere near the level of importance attached to women in sports.

Maybe I'm just not hip with racist argot, but I still (and this after reading all too many articles while working) don't see the racism aspect. I'll agree that its mean to insult someone/anyones looks, but a lot of comedy is a bit mean spirited -- which is why many people don't like to sit in the front row at comedy shows.

I think women athletes get a far cushier ride than women scientists -- for one they get scholarships via Title IX entitlements far more easily than other women in college. I also think that as athletes, they are fair game for commentary ranging from "her drive was off because her big tits got in the way" to "Mia Hamm sure is hot with her shirt off". Female athletes might be competing for the "spirit" or "team" building experience, but sports are primarily entertainment as consumed by the masses. So just like its legitimate to call attention to the type of sneakers a player wears, its also legitimate to talk about how the player looks.

Its a visual medium selling a visual product. Hell I fully expect Vidal Sassoon to make a commercial soon featuring these athletes.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

I think women athletes get a far cushier ride than women scientists -- for one they get scholarships via Title IX entitlements far more easily than other women in college. I also think that as athletes, they are fair game for commentary ranging from "her drive was off because her big tits got in the way" to "Mia Hamm sure is hot with her shirt off".

Cool. I didn't realize all this. Very enlightening.

Oh, and btw, since I'm one to ask questions or make comments on a more personal level all the time anyway, here's hoping you'll feel the same way one day if a daughter of yours decides to try to be an athlete.

Oh, and btw, since I'm one to ask questions or make comments on a more personal level all the time anyway, here's hoping you'll feel the same way one day if a daughter of yours decides to try to be an athlete.

If my daughter gets a free ride to college and as a result has to contend with radio personalities calling her a "nappy headed ho", I won't be put out. Much in the same manner if my daughter goes to a free American school (fat chance of that) and gets accused of having cooties, I still won't care.

Sure I'll pretend to be outraged and promise to "go have a talk" with Jimmy the bully (whether he be a radio personality or a 3rd grader)..but inside..honestly I don't think I'd bother mentioning it here on TnT as a story.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

If my daughter gets a free ride to college and as a result has to contend with radio personalities calling her a "nappy headed ho", I won't be put out.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Imus's lame comments. I was referring to yours: I also think that as athletes, they are fair game for commentary ranging from "her drive was off because her big tits got in the way" to "Mia Hamm sure is hot with her shirt off".

If you'd be okay with that as a dad, fine. Personally, if I were a father, I'd want to deck any asshole who thought that was fair commentary.

I guess it means he sort of agrees that Ms. Zurich remains a ho

I'm sorry. Does that settle the matter?

I'm seeing marketing opportunities here.  T-shirts that say "I'm a nappy headed ho".  They should sell like hotcakes.

What is it that you're missing about this?

The part where the term "nappy-headed" equates to being a racial slur. Maybe its because a) I didn't grow up here and b) its not as widely known as say 'nigger' but I have a completely different cultural interpretation of "nappy headed" while nevertheless being familiar with the term.

I can state as a fact that it is colloquially used in many Caribbean islands by -parents regarding their kids, as well as kids themselves regardless of race-   without any trace of racism attached to it.

Prior to your post I was under the assumption that the objectionable issue was the use of the word "ho"..now your comment has confused me even more.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

You've never noticed how many African-American women spend a tremendous amount of time, effort, and money making their hair straight (that is, non-nappy)?

You've never noticed how many African-American women spend a tremendous amount of time, effort, and money making their hair straight (that is, non-nappy)?

Er women in general spend an inordinate amount of time on beauty efforts which seem pointless to me (high heels for example). I haven't really noticed efforts in that direction, but honestly haven't really thought about it.

Still -- over the past few years I've dyed my own hair (naturally black and straight) -- blond, red, cut it to various lengths (from down to my ass to marine style) and not once have I thought that in doing so it was somehow attempting to look like some other race/divorce myself from my own ethnicity [whatever that might be -- all things considered I don't fit neatly into any one ethnic category]

Still assuming african-women are sensitive about their hair -- what makes it racism to poke fun at that?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

The use of the term "nappy-headed" was clearly meant as a mocking insult. (I mean, I hope it's clear. Do you think it's reasonable to take it any other way?) I have no trouble seeing that a mocking insult that points out a racial attribute is a racial insult.

In this case the racial insult was also clearly said in jest. But that doesn't make it any less racial.

The use of the term "nappy-headed" was clearly meant as a mocking insult. (I mean, I hope it's clear. Do you think it's reasonable to take it any other way?) I have no trouble seeing that a mocking insult that points out a racial attribute is a racial insult.

So saying "that so blonde of her" or "that irish redhead..she's a fiery one" -- all racial insults? If yes..perhaps racial insults should be viewed separately from racism as I see no distinction that being "blonde" or "redhead" is somehow better than being nappy-headed. I've always thought that was wrong with racism was the presumption that one race was superior/inferior to another...I didn't realize that if one noted certain obvious facts whether its blondness/napypy headness then that too was a form of racism.

WK

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

So saying "that so blonde of her" or "that irish redhead..she's a fiery one" -- all racial insults?

No, because blonde-white or redhead-white are not generally recognized as races, but African is. (Race being mostly a social construct, of course. There are several African races, but most Americans are ignorant of that fact and therefore don't draw distinctions.) Also, "blonde" or "irish redhead" are not the insults in those examples, but the implication of low intelligence and irascible temperament.

I think a more compelling reason for Imus losing his gig is that the money walked out on him.  When the first group of advertisers announced they were pulling out on him I thought there was a chance he might get the two week suspension lengthened to three or four.  But when just about every major advertiser on his program backed out I knew it was over for him.

As you say, Bill Cosby and many mainstream blacks were holding back refusing to join the lemmings following Jackson and Sharpton to the cliffs.  And I honestly wonder just how many blacks really and truly consider those two to be the voices of the community.  But it wasn't the black protest that broke it off in the I-Man.  As Richard Nixon once said when he was about to take a helicopter to retirement "I lost my political base of support in Congress."  Well Imus lost his economic base of support in the media.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

   I distrust this notion that Jackson and Sharpton somehow have these magic wands that can get them results. They complain a lot, but lightning only strikes once in a while-- when some other factor provides enough juice to force the issue. In this case money was an effect, but I'd argue it wasn't the cause-- no, the driving force here was sports.
   Think about it; Imus was a known factor in the media, and his backers had to know that a little flak was going to be a part of doing business. Indeed, in the modern day, a little controversy can be good business. But then ESPN started talking about the story every couple hours, and I believe these companies realized they were looking at a whole new demographic- and a huge money demographic at that- who might well take their money elsewhere if Imus stuck around. If he'd picked on some strippers, maybe some welfare moms, he'd still have a job; diss the sports media juggernaut, though, and it's no surprise he's looking at retirement.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

This is an extremely astute comment that has yet to be brought up in most of the conversations I've seen on this topic. My conclusion to this point was that the Rutgers team was seen as extremely sympathetic because of their youth and I had not yet thought of the fact that Imus had essentially stepped into a different arena, no pun intended. The liberal moral force of ESPN cannot be discounted in the least. They are the ratings kings of basic cable and own the satellite transponders on which a lot of other basic cable networks depend for their very life so they get to throw their weight around quite a bit.

For whatever reason, I hadn't watched ESPN at all these past two weeks so I hadn't picked up on it but I should have. They were the ones who led the charge on Tim Hardaway (which was a good thing in my mind).

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

   In a way, all sports became connected in a general universe a couple years after ESPN rolled around- or even more so than before- so that baseball announcers, say, feel comfortable talking about football, racing, basketball, what have you. Add on that NBC broadcasts NBA games, CBS (I think) covers the NCAA hoops finals, everyone covers football when they can, and the tons of outlets that broadcast local baseball games . . that's an awful lot of eyeballs, and a lot of money. ESPN, I'd guess, was the canary in the coal mine for the execs, who couldn't be sure Imus wouldn't turn into a repeat joke figure, like Martha Stewart or Al Gore.
   Well, that and the fact that women are still someone's daughters until they graduate college-- and any teenage boy can tell you you won't get far dissing a man's daughter. Even Zappa provoked his biggest controversies with songs like "Jewish American Princess" and "Catholic Girls", IIRC, though I'm not 100% positive about that history.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

Could you share your thoughts on the 'zoo crew' format? Thank you.

I can't stand talk radio from NPR to Radio America to morning shows and so on down the dial. But Mark & Brian on KLOS here in LA are almost listenable when I've exchausted all other musical options. They have a distrinctly positive outlook.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.