Etcetera

So It Goes

3fingerspointback.

Posted to Etcetera on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 07:47:41 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

On April 11th, seminal writer Kurt Vonnegut, Jr died of complications from a fall at his home in Manhattan.

Always a writer by trade, Vonnegut remained relatively unknown until his third novel, Cat's Cradle, made the bestseller lists in 1963.  His fifth, Slaughterhouse Five turned him into an icon.  The book's strong antiwar theme, coupled with its nonlinear structure and its exploration of free will, made the work a must-read for any college student during the Vietnam era.  He continued to write fiction until 1997, when he retired himself from the craft with his last major work, Timequake.  Vonnegut also wrote extensively on his Humanist beliefs and politics.  After Timequake and up to the time of his death, he continued to contribute essays for the left-wing magazine In These Times.

Tags: edited by Port1080, 3fingerspointback, Vonnegut, authors, death (all tags)

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Re: So It Goes

thefadd.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:48:13 PM EST

none

Vonnegut's progressive voice will be sorely missed, much like with the recent passing of Hunter S. Thompson. In recent years, he didn't release anymore acclaimed novels but he did give some fabulous interviews. I tried googling some that I thought I recalled but it's difficult at this point to find anything that isn't a memorial or covering his death.

The adulation for Vonnegut among my liberal peers has always been off the charts. Upon knowing me, I'd say 75% of my friends have been like, "Oh you must love Vonnegut." Personally, though, I've yet to be able to get into any of his writing. There's no denying the impact he did have and his lasting influence but I don't feel that his writing has aged well. I think at the end of the day, he was too much a child of his times, like Salinger, as opposed to Joseph Heller, whose lone novel was utterly timeless. So I guess for all the Vonnegut fans out there, what were your favorite work or works of his and for god's sake why? (Spoilers encouraged)

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

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Re: So It Goes

dzetetes.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 04:47:33 PM EST

5.00 (informative, astute)

It's been years since I've read any Vonnegut, and I'm not familiar with his entire corpus, but when I read his books, I remember appreciating that he was one of the few authors I've read who had managed to combine serious intent and serious playfulness.  One could argue that that's true of all satirists, but in Vonnegut's case, I think it was his willingness to make light of himself as well as his subject matter that I found appealing.

For comparison (and I'm having a hard time thinking of examples, which probably says how little modern fiction I read), take Roth's Portnoy's Complaint.  It's a satire of middle-class Jewish life, but it's also a satire of stereotypes about middle-class Jewish life, and it's really funny.  After all, the main character (Alex Portnoy) is spotted early in the book fucking a piece of uncooked meat (which goes on to be the family's dinner later, IIRC) in the bathroom, and wallows in guilty terror when he accidently ejaculates all over the bathroom lightbulb.  

That's not really relevant to my point, and I'm not sure why I typed it now, but hey.  Anyway, as keen as Roth's satirical sense is, you're aware throughout Portnoy's Complaint that, while you're reading a very funny book, you're also reading A Very Important Novel, written by an Author Of Prodigious Talent, Whose Work Will Undoubtedly Receive Favorable Reviews In The New York Review Of Books And Garner Him Many Invitations To Swanky Dinner Parties.

There's nothing wrong with writing for immortality, or the approbation of people who can't help but mention Bakhtin in casual conversation, or even for Invitations To Swanky Dinner Parties.  I like Roth.  I really like Nabokov.  I'd probably even like Joyce, if I could ever use my copy of Ulysses as anything but a doorstop.  But sometimes it's nice to be able to read a story that's a really good story, but that's not just fluff.  Vonnegut managed to write page-turners in accessible prose that had something to say about human folly, and human beauty.  And although he witnessed some horrible things in WWII, and struggled with depression for many years, he could acknowledge the uglier parts of humanity and still respond with (a somewhat bemused) compassion.

I suppose not listing Slaughterhouse-Five is some kind of sin, but to be honest, I've only read it once, and at the time, I didn't feel that it was superior to some of his other books.

My favorites are The Sirens of Titan, Galapagos, and Cat's Cradle.  Breakfast of Champions had its moments, but overall was weaker than his other books that I'm familiar with.  I hate not to offer any plot spoilers, but the reasons for liking Vonnegut I've discussed above apply to all of my favorites.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: So It Goes

thefadd.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 06:23:57 PM EST

none

I get exactly what you're saying from my reading of Breakfast of Champions. Since it was the first book of his that I read, I've taken everyone at their word that I shouldn't hold it up as an example of his work. I didn't like it but I do get exactly what you're saying about his style -- I see where it could have been a fun book. It just didn't do enough for me. Sirens of Titan, though, was torturously heavy handed.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

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Re: So It Goes

thefadd.

Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 12:36:55 AM EST

none

My gf just helped me recall that Cat's Cradle was the third of his books, that I tried my hand at. It was distinctly head and shoulders above Sirens of Titan and Breakfast of Champions so if Slaughterhouse Five is that much more ahead of it, then I'm hopeful for it. Of course, Cat's Cradle had run in with my recollection of SoT so that diminishes SoT that much more in my mind. And the fact that both of them were in the past year and I still couldn't keep them separate bodes either badly for them or worse for my job related stress. While the most engaging of his work that I've seen Cat's Cradle still boiled down to just one long ejaculation onto the face of christianity and organized religion to me without any characters who amounted to more than a cardboard cut out. In fact it was possibly the worst of the three for character development and my gf who liked it agreed.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: So It Goes

zyxwvutsr.

Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 01:39:35 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I have read all of Vonnegut's novels, and I would agree that The Sirens of Titan is probably the worst of his books. Sirens was Vonnegut's second novel, and he wrote it a few years after the publication of his first, Player Piano. Player Piano was Vonnegut's most conventionally-styled novel and, although it was only marginally a science fiction work, it got him pigeonholed as a science fiction writer. For several years after the publication of Player Piano, Vonnegut eked out a living writing science fiction short stories, and the plot of Sirens was at least partially the result of publishers viewing him solely as a science fiction author.

Vonnegut's next novel, Mother Night was an attempt to break out of the science fiction mold (one that Vonnegut didn't belong in anyway). His next book, Cat's Cradle, was, I think, his first where you can see what would become his unique literary style. That style is quirky, to put it mildly, and can be off-putting to a lot of readers. That quirkiness became polished in his later works, as did many of the anthropological ideas that first appeared in Cat's Cradle. (Such as the grandfalloon.)

It is because Vonnegut's literary style became more and more polished over the years that, if someone who had never read a Vonnegut novel were to ask me which they should read first, I would not recommend his earlier works such as Cat's Cradle or even Slaughterhouse Five, which is widely regarded as his masterpiece. (And definitely not The Sirens of Titan, which I see as coming before Vonnegut found his own style.)

If you care to give Vonnegut another chance, I suggest starting with Galapagos and then giving Slapstick a try. Galapagos is brilliantly written (perhaps some of his most effortless prose - really a joy to read), received excellent reviews, and is somewhat more conventional than his other novels yet still maintains a deep thread of quirkiness. In its themes it has only the thinnest veneer of science fiction, but that veneer is also brilliant (Vonnegut shows a deep understanding of central themes of evolutionary theory, for example). Slapstick, on the other hand, received mostly bad reviews, and was, I think, Vonnegut throwing caution to the wind and embracing the most offbeat of his literary ideas. I don't think there were many reviewers of Slapstick that understood its true nature: it was a very, very silly novel, and if you accept that fact it is quite good indeed.

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Re: So It Goes

dzetetes.

Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 02:12:45 PM EST

none

I can second zyxwvutsr's endorsement of Galapagos.  He characterizes it well.

No love for Sirens!  I'll grant that I was (an impressionable) nineteen or twenty the last time I read it.  I guess I'm going to have to borrow my brother's copy and reread it to see if it's really as bad as everyone keeps saying.

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Joseph Heller's Lone Novel.

MayorBob.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 04:55:57 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Which of the six he's had published are you referring to?  You're of course, spot on with your evaluation of "Catch 22" as being timeless, as I can attest that the military hadn't gotten any saner from Heller's WWII to my Vietnam experience.  I'm sure if you sat Iraq War vets down with a copy of the book, they would find entire sections which would resonate with them.

To be honest, the only novel of Vonnegut's I ever read was Cat's Cradle which was okay.  I've seen films based upon two other Vonnegut novels:  "Mother Night" and "Slaughterhouse-Five" but neither of those movies moved me to want to read the books.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Joseph Heller's Lone Novel.

thefadd.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 06:17:03 PM EST

none

I'd forgotten about closing time, but I do remember now knowing of three. I'd thought he'd stopped after Something Happened got throttled, then only gone back to Closing Time much much later.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

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Re: Joseph Heller's Lone Novel.

humorlesscretin.

Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 11:34:23 PM EST

none

I'm sure if you sat Iraq War vets down with a copy of the book, they would find entire sections which would resonate with them.

I'm not an Iraq War vet, but my time working for the Navy and Marine Corps as a grad student showed that Catch-22 is alive, well and busily ensnaring anything it can reach.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

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Re: Joseph Heller's Lone Novel.

thefadd.

Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 01:32:17 AM EST

none

Well, the movie of Catch-22 was so god-awful that I wouldn't hold anything against a book for how bad the movie was. Breakfast of Champions was a poor book but aside from the sex and the acting was 10x better than the movie.

escalators never fail; they just become stairs

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Re: So It Goes

keta.

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 05:44:06 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

I'd say your liberal peers' high percentage of Vonnegut adulation is rooted in the very fact that Vonnegut was a very accessible writer.  Which isn't to say there wasn't a lot bubbling away in the background, but his stories, at their most basic reading, were simplistic page turners filled with a wry humour that was impossible to miss.  The fact that so very many people could read, enjoy, and discuss Vonnegut's work is the most important point in realizing how beloved he was.  Are/were there better writers?  Certainly.  But when only a small percentage of the population reads and understands certain books, the universal acclaim is harder to come by.

I strongly urge you to read Slaughterhouse-Five.  I know I'm going to dig up a copy and reread the thing, and if the book scans as I remember it, I think your observation about his writing "not aging well" will be proven false.  (Funnily enough, your reservations about Vonnegut are completely in tune with my feelings about Thompson.  About fifteen years ago I realized a writer I'd so admired had shot has wad long,long ago, and while some titles hold up well, the rest of his schtick is tired and trite.  Ah, subjectivity.)

One last thing.  While you might remember Heller only having written one book, he actually authored six, which is a common mistake...because when something really impresses, it tends to shove aside the less-than-stellar stuff.    

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Dresden

tomc.

Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 02:55:58 PM EST

none

What constantly amazes me is the number of people who to this day are ready to defend the firebombing of Dresden.

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Re: Dresden

tomc.

Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 03:03:21 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

I visited Dresden in 1974.  Some buildings were left as they were after the bombing as a monument to the deliberate cruelty of the West.  Some argued that the state (then the DDR- Democratic Republic of Germany) simply didn't have the money to rebuild.

It was a sobering sight, though, to see centuries-old stone buildings burned.

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Re: Dresden

nmiguy.

Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:41:39 PM EST

none

Don't forget Curtis LeMay firebombed Tokyo too.  Paper houses, went up like a giant bonfire.  Dresden was not an isolated incident.  The objective was to end the war quickly.  To destroy the enemy's will to fight, I guess.  It was an atrocity, but the victors get the spoils and write the history books, and don't stand trial for war crimes.  

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Re: Dresden

tomc.

Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:54:51 PM EST

none

Just like the German bombing of London broke the spirit of the English?

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Re: Dresden

nmiguy.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:40:03 AM EST

none

Hey I'm just explaining the rationale behind it.  To me it was still an atrocity.  

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Re: Dresden

tomc.

Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 06:10:55 PM EST

none

No worries!  My comment wasn't an accusation! 8^)

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