Sure, I understand the social environment of a university is different from a similarly-sized town.  But it seems from press reports that the administration was in disarray.  The initial shooting happened at 7:15am.  If you assume that it might take 15 minutes before high-level university management gets the news, it could have been too late to call off the 8:00am classes.  At 10:00am the university issued an email to all students to beware of a gunman, so it seems by that time administrators had grasped the situation and also realized the broadcasting power of their email system.

If I were managing such a situation, I hope that I would realize that it's pointless to alarm the public as to the possible presence of a gunman without also taking measures to secure the campus.  There may be plenty of blame to cast in the general direction of university administrators, but they are academics not field marshals.  Here in the real world not every person is prepared to deal with a rampaging murderer.

One of the reports I read said he was a loner from a quiet house and usually didn't acknowledge when people said hello but played a lot of basketball and had recently gotten a speeding ticket on campus for doing 44 in a 25. He purchased at least one of the guns in March.

from CNN:

A fellow student said the 23-year-old English major had written two plays so "twisted" that his classmates suspected he might become a school shooter.

Ian McFarlane, who said he had class with Cho, called the plays "very graphic" and "extremely disturbing."

   Haven't followed this story closely- my TV system chose two days ago to collapse after 12 years- but I caught at the gym just now that Cho was already getting counseling for what turned out to be serious mental problems. What's going to be disgusting is seeing and hearing how a failure of the system at the tail end is spun as a total failure, ie. counseling programs are all failures because they couldn't stop one shooter, so we (Americans) should keep treating them with disdain, and maybe even cut funding. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I don't think guns will be the only political angle to this story as it develops.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

If it is one thing we do not have enough of in this country is access to mental health services. Part of that is due to stigma, and part of that is due to it not being considered on par with "physical" illness.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

Damn, that guy was a friggin speeder.  (Shudder.)

Honestly, I'd hate to be that cop that gave him the ticket. Even though there is nothing he could have done, he will probably spend the rest of his life/career going over and over the event in his head, wondering if he missed anything. Like this officer.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

I didn't expect you to go there.  Something must be broken with my sense of humor.  I was all like "he's a speeder" to make a point that this minor detail that he got a speeding ticket is such a heinous indicator, the humor was meant to place the minor traffic violation in contrast with his mass murder spree.  And your response was about a 9/11 hi-jacker who got a speeding violation 2 days before 9/11, and how that the officer that pulled him over could somehow have known what the guy would do.  

I voted for the gunman on this poll.  But, if you're asking to dole out some measure of the blame to others for this tragedy, I'd have to give it about 50 percent to the shooter and 50 percent to the campus police (and, by extension, to the school itself).  Without the gunman wielding the gun the first two murders couldn't have taken place.  Why it took two hours for the campus cops and the school to realize they had someone on the loose with a gun on the campus is a question not satisfactorily answered by the campus police chief's assertion that they thought they had everything limited to the dorm room and nobody could have thought they would have a second incident anywhere on the campus.  Sorry, but if you had a double murder take place by gunfire and you still didn't have the suspect apprehended within a half hour at most, one would think that measures should have been taken to increase physical security at all campus buildings (even if it means calling in the local and state police).

I can't blame guns because doing that just leads to mental masturbatory fantasies about banning the sale and ownership of guns in this country.  Sorry, but the Second Amendment is like a sacred mantra in this country and all of us are inculcated into the cult of the handgun (they won the West, they are invaluable when your home is invaded by criminals, they are there to use to oppose a "Red Dawn" invasion scenario, they are there to oppose the jackbooted agents of ZOG wetdreams, etc.).  I realize this last will not be the most popular opinion offered in this thread, but might it have been possible that a good portion of the 32 who were killed in Norris Hall might have been saved had there been a student or faculty member with a permit to carry a concealed weapon on hand?  I think it's a valid question and not worthy of being dismissed out of hand by the ramblings of a gun nut (I don't own a gun and the only ones I ever fired were as a member of the US Army).

Illegitimi non carborundum.

I voted for the gunman on this poll.  But, if you're asking to dole out some measure of the blame to others for this tragedy, I'd have to give it about 50 percent to the shooter and 50 percent to the campus police (and, by extension, to the school itself).  Without the gunman wielding the gun the first two murders couldn't have taken place.  Why it took two hours for the campus cops and the school to realize they had someone on the loose with a gun on the campus is a question not satisfactorily answered by the campus police chief's assertion that they thought they had everything limited to the dorm room and nobody could have thought they would have a second incident anywhere on the campus.  Sorry, but if you had a double murder take place by gunfire and you still didn't have the suspect apprehended within a half hour at most, one would think that measures should have been taken to increase physical security at all campus buildings (even if it means calling in the local and state police).

I'm not so sure I'm ready to blame the campus fuzz quite yet. At least this early in the case. 20-30k people is like a small city. How many times do people get murdered in this country every day by some psychopath and it doesn't result in a city-wide lockdown? At this time I'd accept the responding officer's suggestion that it was a domestic situation based on what they saw. You are correct, security should have been beefed up, but we'll not know if that happened until the investigation is completed. Right now this looks like a relatively unavoidable tragedy.

I can't blame guns because doing that just leads to mental masturbatory fantasies about banning the sale and ownership of guns in this country.  Sorry, but the Second Amendment is like a sacred mantra in this country and all of us are inculcated into the cult of the handgun (they won the West, they are invaluable when your home is invaded by criminals, they are there to use to oppose a "Red Dawn" invasion scenario, they are there to oppose the jackbooted agents of ZOG wetdreams, etc.).  I realize this last will not be the most popular opinion offered in this thread, but might it have been possible that a good portion of the 32 who were killed in Norris Hall might have been saved had there been a student or faculty member with a permit to carry a concealed weapon on hand?  I think it's a valid question and not worthy of being dismissed out of hand by the ramblings of a gun nut (I don't own a gun and the only ones I ever fired were as a member of the US Army).

I, also, don't own a gun; my ancestors were Quakers! In all seriousness, yes, I would argue that if there was a cop in the 2nd building when it started or somebody with a CCW then the situation would have been resolved, or at least contained until the calvary could arrive. As recently as the incident in SLC a few months ago a similar massacre was limited or attenuated by an off duty cop in the right place at the right time.

I believe the issue you mentioned will be one of the more interesting debates that comes from this -- I posted earlier about a restriction preventing those with CCW from carrying on the campus. Would it have prevented this? Who knows.

What changes will come from this? I'm not so sure right now, except for being relatively sure certain there will now be an additional impetus for small college security forces to upgrade to armed officers, and for more armed private security. I went to a small liberal arts school in the middle of East Jabip. The campus 5-0, who were considered police officers under state law, were trained to but didn't carry although they supposedly had one pistol in a safe for emergencies (not particularly useful in case of an "active shooter"). Now, there isn't much you can do to prevent some marauder from coming in and trying to pull a stunt like this, but I could imagine more college administrators getting panicky "Think of the children!" phone calls from parents and arming their security staff in response. Therefore, the only people who will win from this will be used firearms dealers and security training academies.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

And blames it on the guns...

In Italy, leading daily Corriere della Sera's ran an opinion piece entitled "Guns at the Supermarket" -- a critical view of the U.S. gun lobby and the ease with which guns can be purchased.

"The latest attack on a U.S. campus will shake up America, maybe it will provoke more vigorous reactions than in the past, but it won't change the culture of a country that has the notion of self-defense imprinted on its DNA and which considers the right of having guns inalienable," Corriere wrote in its front-page story.

The shooting drew intense coverage by media in China, in part because the school has a relatively large Chinese student body and because U.S. reports said the gunman may have been Chinese or Asian.

Private citizens are forbidden from owning guns in China.

"Why are there were so many shooting incidents in American schools and universities?" said a comment posted on the popular Internet portal Sohu.com. "People should think why an American-educated student would take revenge against America?"

The Times of London ran an editorial delving into the American psyche and the weak gun laws across the country.

"Why, we ask, do Americans continue to tolerate gun laws and a culture that seems to condemn thousands of innocents to death every year, when presumably, tougher restrictions, such as those in force in European countries, could at least reduce the number?"

Gun crime is extremely rare in Britain, and handguns are completely illegal. The ban is so strictly enforced that Britain's Olympic pistol shooting team is barred from practicing in its own country.

Britain's 46 homicides involving firearms was the lowest total since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded at least 579 homicides last year.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

Ha!

Reminds me of a story my former boss told me about a visit to Australia and when he stopped in immigration they asked him if he was ever convicted of a serious crime.

He claims to have immediately replied, "Oh, I didn't realize that was still a requirement to get in!"

I would have been rolling on the floor pissing myself laughing, but my old boss claims the inspector was... less than amused. He is lucky he didn't get his ass deported.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

When we were studying in France my friend asked every French person he could (in perfect French) when next they expected to be invaded by the Germans. He did this for the first two weeks straight and I discovered that a good many French people have a decent sense of humor, although certainly not all of them.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

Funny story. That point is true, though. I've found from my (limited) world travel as long as you don't act like the "Ugly American" usually the folks are quite likely to open up.

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

If you want to turn the tables, you can always express surprise at how long you've been in their country without experiencing one Godzilla attack or tentacle rape.

:)  Seriously, though, I have been faced with that dilemma before.  How do you explain to some regular Japanese person (the majority of which are fiercely proud of their cultural heritage) that a good deal of westerners believe that every town in Japan, no matter how remote, has access to at least one vending machine that sells used, high school girls' panties?  Or that a good deal of westerners assume most Japanese folks regularly view anime featuring tentacled aliens and high school girls (porn or not).  Never mind the old stereotypes of Godzilla fearing, picture snapping, glasses wearing tourists.

Not "any point."

Since WWII, Bill Clinton is the only US President to oversee a real drop in the national homicide rate

In any case, someone who claims that the US has become a violent country is either ignorant or being parsimonious with the truth. There are any number of other claims made by the Brady Center (see their website) that are equally fallacious.

In any case, someone who claims that the US has become a violent country is either ignorant or being parsimonious with the truth. Well, we can agree on that point. I think the idea that the US is a violent country (and the correlary that it's cities are also exceptionally dangerous) is an exagerated view held not just by foreigners but also by Americans. I'm continually amazed by the Americans I meet who are shocked that I could live within the borders of a major city and claim that I'm not shot at on a daily basis (knock wood). I was struck by a comment by one of the Va Tech students in response to the swat teams showing up on campus. She said something to the effect of "I thought I was in a war or a city."

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

Some idiot leaves a threatening message on a high school in NJ's voice mail before school. School wasn't canceled, rather students shown up and immediately told to remove their jackets, backpacks and sit in classrooms with the lights off for 3 hours while on a "lock-down."

Arriving parents not allowed to pick children up until 11am when the "lockdown" was lifted. Instead they milled around randomly outside the school. Either the cops didn't believe it was legit and thus let people loiter around in the line of fire, or them and the administration were idiots.

Is it just me, or are there major problems when crap like this happens?

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

   I dunno. The vast majority of calls like that turn out to be hoaxes (over 90%?), so the school administrators were right to treat that call skeptically. (Most school shooters, IIRC, just show up and start blasting.) If they canceled without a fuss, then a future of monthly, even weekly, cancellations because some jackass didn't want to go to class that day (or thought it's funny) would be distinctly possible. The only thing that was really botched, from this keyboard, was not having a plan to deal with the parents who showed up at the school. Sending them home probably was impossible, so having a guarded collection area seems the best response.
    I can't be too hard on the administrators-- and you have no idea how much I believe most of them are idiots or scum. The situation was a lose/lose all around, because they were going to get chastised whether they did something, or did nothing. ("There was a call and you just let it go?") When there is no right answer, the only standard of judgment is how many things went wrong. In this case, only one glaring mistake (the parents) jumps up immediately, and for me, that's not too bad. YMMV.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

If they canceled without a fuss, then a future of monthly, even weekly, cancellations because some jackass didn't want to go to class that day (or thought it's funny) would be distinctly possible.

I agree. But then when they catch these jokers who pull this crap they should toss their collective asses in juvie and charge them to the fullest extent of the law. Perhaps when little Madison or Tyler has a misdemeanor or mild felony conviction on their record and can't get into the college of their choice it will make their peers think twice. I bet when that happens a few times the # of prank calls will drop precipitously.

I agree, it was a lose/lose situation. I am glad the school system is making an investment in a machine that will send a message to all the students and parents cell phones. However, I just wonder about the logic of still inviting the students to school and, surprise! Forcing them to remain locked in some random classroom while their papers and backpacks are left in the hallway -- for who knows what random search? In the interim you have tons of parents milling about in an unsecured area who were refused permission to pick their own children up. I just don't like the way it played out, but unfortunately, I am sure there will be more than enough practices in this type of drill in the future.

Perhaps this whole mess will cause some schools to rethink the ban on cell phones?

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

If this is high school and we can judge by the kids who called in the bomb threats when I was in high school, 3 out of 4 of them already have records and wouldn't be phased. Sadly, I think it's a case were authorities have make it rough on their peers so their peers come down on them because the authorities aren't going to get to them.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

If this is high school and we can judge by the kids who called in the bomb threats when I was in high school, 3 out of 4 of them already have records and wouldn't be phased. Sadly, I think it's a case were authorities have make it rough on their peers so their peers come down on them because the authorities aren't going to get to them.

That is a good point and brings up a related one. Why should the folks who are in high school to learn have to suffer the indignities and shenanigans of a group of malcontents? Public education is a right, but how about shifting those who do not care into alternative programs or allowing them to go to a trade/vo-tech school, if they would rather do that, at public expense (which would probably be better for them in the long run) so they can apply themselves to something they do want to do, if the academic world isn't the place they should be?

Nihilists! I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

That is a good point and brings up a related one. Why should the folks who are in high school to learn have to suffer the indignities and shenanigans of a group of malcontents?

Tipping Sacred Cows

   It occurs to me that one reason to still have kids show up is to count heads and see who doesn't show-- either to get an idea who might have called, and chickened out, or who called thinking that school was getting canceled, and went out and got high. There's also the fact that many school shooters are out to get a specific individual (ex-girlfriend), or a group of them (Columbine shooters); if school gets canceled, all those potential targets are all over the district, and nowhere near law enforcement. If the packs are in the hallway, then the kid who doesn't want to let go might be the shooter-- or a potential shooter who still showed up pulls out a gun while being watched, and not halfway through class.
   So yeah, the worst mistake was the way the parents were handled, or rather not handled, but then again all these procedures are probably getting worked out on the fly. Principals have enough trouble maintaining order as is, so extra time working out what to do in a crisis only becomes a topic after it's too late.
    No "best answer" here, just a choice of "least worst" responses.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

Very good point. Along those lines, there were the 11 and 13 year olds who pulled the fire alarm so they could pick girls off with their granddad's rifle when the building was subsequently evacuated. In most work and school environments people are trained to respond to an emergency by traveling a predetermined path to a predetermined meeting place. This kind of predictability is good for certain emergencies but vulnerable to false initial calls that might have an ulterior motive. It's asking a lot, but to some extent, high school administrators have to start thinking in terms of creative ways to react in these situations so that they also aren't acting predictably. Sitting in your classroom for 3 hours because someone pulled a fire alarm may not make a ton of sense in a one time situation the administrator does have to think of the long-long term safety issues inherent in mass evacuations. For example, KCRW had the head of UCLA's police on in reaction the Va Tech incident. He said they once tried to evacuate the campus only to realize all that did was end in gridlock on the surrounding city streets.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

My former boss came up with a real bright idea...  His plan was to hand out to every teacher two 8 1/2 by 11 laminated cards.  One was red and the other was green.  Now, here's the tricky part.  Listen carefully or you might miss the subtlety.  See, during a lock down, if a teacher and class were being held hostage, they were supposed to slide a green card under the door.  Get it?  The shooter, terrorist, alien, whatever would think we were telling the authorities that everything was ok and he/it would let his/its guard down. When in fact, we were calling for help!.  Conversely, if everything was hunky dory, we were supposed to slide a red card under the door.

Good times.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

What if the teacher is red/green color blind?  

What if the teacher is red/green color blind?

Hey, you never let facts get in the way of a good plan.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

Yeah, that makes no sense. But in many schools you can't just tell kids to leave and go home every time a threat is phoned in, either, because they don't live near the school.

My love for you is like a truck
BERSERKER!
Would you like some making fuck?
BERSERKER!

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

Didn't Manilow cover that on his most recent CD?

Illegitimi non carborundum.

As I said, define "song." :-)

Did he just say 'making fuck'?

Tipping Sacred Cows

Not in the song I was quoting from

Define "song."

That's rhetorical, rEv.