Politics

Anchor Babies Away: Illegal Immigrants In US Beg To Stay - For The Sake Of The Children.

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 05:24:29 PM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

In the United States there are 11.1 million illegal immigrants. Associated with them are 3.1 million children who are US citizens by birthright. Recently, government crackdowns on illegal immigrants inside the country (instead of at the border) have worried illegal aliens that their US citizen-born children will be left without parents and have begun using this as an argument to justify delays in deportation.

In the United States, any person who is born on US soil is considered a citizen under the 14th amendment as interpreted in Plyler v. Doe. In addition, these children may then sponsor their parents for legal status once they reach the age of 21. This had led some to consider the children of illegal immigrants born in the United States as Anchor Babies.

Pro-immigration groups tell stories of parents forced to choose between taking their children with them back to their country of origin or leaving them in the US with relatives and an uncertain future. A bill (pdf)is even pending in Congress that would allow immigration judges discretion in allowing arrested  illegal immigrants to stay if they are parents of a native born child.  Opponents to this measure state, "You'd be making having a kid an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card. You'd basically be saying that every illegal alien gets to stay permanently just because they had a kid once they crossed the border." They compare it to children who become homeless because the parents avoid paying the mortgage and thus must suffer when the bank forecloses on their house.

While this debate continues, illegal immigrants have gone to visit members of Congress and participate in rallies demanding the right to stay in the United States if they have a native born child. According to the cited MSNBC article, encounters like this are common:

Before their meetings with lawmakers, Lozano gathered the children in a church to practice recounting their stories.

"OK, so why are you here?" Lozano asked Juan.

"Because I'm trying to get my Dad and my Mom papers," the boy answered confidently in English.

"And what are they trying to do to your Mom and Dad?" Lozana prompted.

"They're trying to take them to Mexico," he said, his voice suddenly becoming smaller.

"And what's going to happen to you if that happens?"

"I'm going to be left all alone!" he said, bursting into sobs.

Tags: written by pO157, edited by 1fastdog, immigration, 14th amendment, kids, law, politics (all tags)

This story: 17 comments (1 from subqueue)
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3

Why?

Steve Urkel.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 11:12:05 PM EST

4.33 (interesting, astute)

People who employ unskilled workers favor immigration because they make and/or save money because of it, Leftists favor immigration because they hate white people, and wish to displace them, George Bush favors immigration because he loves Mexicans, and politicians in general favor mass immigration because it's a means to usurp American democracy, as a former aide to Mexican President Vicente Fox observes

the American political class has a special affinity for their colleagues south of the border. The appeal of their lavishness and impunity seems to strike a positive chord in the American politicians, who perhaps resent being held accountable by their citizens, who cannot become wealthy from politics, and who may be removed from power "unfairly" and without warning.
Given that "low-skill households received at least three dollars in benefits and services for each dollar in taxes paid. If the costs of public goods and past financial obligations are added, the ratio rises to four to one", why do any of you not in the above categories continue to be for mass immigration of unskilled workers?

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Re: Why?

pO157.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:56:12 AM EST

none

I thought about your entry as I read the latest editorial from CNN "Special Commentator" Ruben Navarrette, Jr:


Having said that, the emphasis should go to employment needs and not to personal factors such as education, training or other skills. Getting into the United States should not be like getting into Harvard.

Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand the first thing about this country or the enormous contributions that have been made over the generations by low-skilled immigrants from all over the world who didn't have so much as a high school diploma.

Well, yes that is true, unskilled immigrants (the Chinese immigrants several decades ago who helped build the railroads, etc) have made major contributions to this country. However, I would argue that the US should be a bit more selective in who it admits. Our social services system in this country is broken, the educational system needs work, etc. Why should we not take the "first round draft picks" (doctors, scientists, tradespeople, artists, etc) for the majority of the immigrants we allow in? How does it make sense to allow in folks who will likely consume more in services than they pay in taxes over their lifetime? Other countries seem to have similar priorities in place.

(Editor's Note:  I completely support humanitarian visas for certain cases, and will separate them from this argument. The US [and every other country] has a duty to allow in people who are genuinely persecuted in their homelands due to conflict despite skill level, etc).

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Heh.

gerrymander.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 11:29:43 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

(the Chinese immigrants several decades ago who helped build the railroads, etc)

Calling the time elapsed between the 1860s and now "a few decades" kinda stretches the definition of "few."

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Re: Why?

Steve Urkel.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 12:33:21 PM EST

none

It's Navarrette, who dresses up his desire to import more people of his race as being some sort of universalist impulse, that doesn't know his history. Current levels of immigration are unprecedented, and we've had this pauses in immigration before, which have allowed immigrants to assimilate.

As you recognize, America is different now, and we should adjust our immigration policies to fit with our modern economy and existing welfare state, and a society which has less pressure to assimilate.

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Re: Why?

shane.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:09:43 PM EST

none

In Canada the Chinese "immigrants" who helped build the railroad were actually slaves or prisoners... maybe the same in the states?

1

A Solution

dzetetes.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 06:39:32 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

"I'm going to be left all alone!" he said, bursting into sobs.

Let me be the first to ask young Juan the obvious question.  "Your parents wouldn't take you with them to Mexico?"  Of course, they would, and unless I'm mistaken, Mexican citizens who have children abroad are entitled to secure Mexican citizenship for those children, so it's not as though a child would be stuck in the US with American citizenship (only) and his/her parents would be sent back to Mexico with only Mexican citizenship.

I was interested to read that in Plyer v. Doe (cited in the writeup) the court only addressed the question of "anchor babies" indirectly, by reasoning that the children of illegal immigrants were subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and thus citizens under the first clause of the 14th Amendment.

The solution to the problem of citizen children being separated from noncitizen parents is simple: amend the Constitution, using clearer language to close the loophole opened by Plyer v. Doe.  The 14th Amendment was written to guarantee the citizenship and rights of former slaves who were, after all, basically stateless.  

The amendment could exempt children born five or more years ago (since they're presumably already in the school system), and children who are unable to obtain their parents citizenship (for some legal reason, not a mere lack of effort on the parents' part) and would thus become stateless.  

In regione caecorum, rex est luscus.

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Re: A Solution

Steve Urkel.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 10:57:00 PM EST

none

I find your position quite reasonable, but on the political level such views are labelled extremeist.

4

Cry me a river

wetkarma.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 11:13:04 PM EST

4.00

If this is the best argument pro-immigrant activists can come up with, then immigrants are screwed.

 Kids suffer for their parents fuckups all the time -- whether its getting beaten because dad lost his job at the mill, to getting whored out for a few dollars so mom can get high on smack. I am not absolutely positive but I  suspect that the OJ jury wouldn't have been swayed if Johnnie Cochran had come out with a defense of "you can't send my client to jail because his kids will be all alone".

I myself am continually amazed by the following issues which affect the immigration debate:

Both political parties argue strenuously for free trade  -- but only for goods and never for labor.  

Both political parties are anxious to create new entitlement programs for the poor - but none seems to want to  actually eliminate the worker pool which the poor competes with. i.e. Giving the poor a chance to get ahead.

Immigrants must be some serious long term planners willing to plan 18 years in advance just to gain a shot at having welfare benefits in America when sponsored by their kids. Just think hijo..in another 10 years I can stop mowing lawns and picking lettuce and live off that sweet government welfare!

FD: I'm an American citizen who was born elsewhere and am in the process of getting the heck out of this country.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Cry me a river

Steve Urkel.

Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 11:51:21 PM EST

none

"Immigrants must be some serious long term planners willing to plan 18 years in advance just to gain a shot at having welfare benefits in America when sponsored by their kids."

It's not long term planning, it's that they know they are going to get knocked up anyway, might as well do it here, it's an added bonus to the higher wages available to them in America.

Or as one greedy illegal puts it:

" The 24-year-old woman said in Spanish that she is an illegal immigrant and has lived in the United States for 10 years. She spoke on the condition that her last name not be published.

 Silvia, a native of Oaxaca, Mexico, said Medi-Cal paid labor and delivery costs for both of her children, and added that she is frustrated that now she has to pay for their medical care and that she expected Friday's doctor visit to cost her $35.

"I think they should pay," said the woman."

As that article notes: "of the 14,350 taxpayer-funded births in the county that year, 5,814, or 40.5 percent, were to illegal immigrants."

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Re: Cry me a river

wetkarma.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 08:45:30 AM EST

5.00


 Silvia, a native of Oaxaca, Mexico, said Medi-Cal paid labor and delivery costs for both of her children, and added that she is frustrated that now she has to pay for their medical care and that she expected Friday's doctor visit to cost her $35.

"I think they should pay," said the woman."

Selective quoting will be the damnation of us all Steve. I know it must have been a mistake on your part, so allow me to help out by posting in full what the woman said:


"I think they should pay," said the woman who earns $11 an hour at a local factory but receives no health benefits. "I buy things, I pay taxes."

You also have also accidentally overlooked this quote right below from another individual in a similar position:

"I think I should pay, but I can't," said Maria, as she waited at the bus stop.

Finally there is this quote which I'm sure you must not have seen:

"But the point is they are already here and if you are talking about taxpayer money, it has been proven that the more you spend on prenatal care, the more you save in the mid- and long-term," Wosk said. "Moneywise, it makes sense and humanitarianwise, you can't turn your back on a newborn."

Still I agree with you -- immigrants are all greedy, selfish people; every single one. I do not except myself from this category. They consistently seek a better life for themselves regardless of how it affects entitlement programs  here in America, or how they steal jobs from real Americans. Real Americans however are different right? I'll leave it to you to explain how a quirk of nationalism and manifest destiny has created such differences in values across culture.

I'll make you a deal -- I'll back a campaign to deport all illegal immigrants if you in turn back a campaign to prosecute business owners who hire illegal immigrants.  For every $1 spent on deportation, spend oh... .05cents against business owners who hire them.

If you want to get radical -- eliminate the welfare programs that account for illegal immigrant costs, that way they become profit centers from the taxes they pay. Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Cry me a river

pO157.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 10:59:06 AM EST

none

I'll make you a deal -- I'll back a campaign to deport all illegal immigrants if you in turn back a campaign to prosecute business owners who hire illegal immigrants.  For every $1 spent on deportation, spend oh... .05cents against business owners who hire them.

I am not sure it is feasible to deport all of the illegals in this country - decades of lax border security have made that nearly impossible. However, I think your idea about increasing enforcement against those in business who knowingly hire illegals is a fine idea -- something that is almost never done unless a political leader needs an example made before an election or to "look tough." Take away the market, and the problem will stop. This will also encourage legal immigration, which is a good thing.

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Re: Cry me a river

Steve Urkel.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 12:21:54 PM EST

none

I do favor actions against employers. Why wouldn't I?

I did leave out "said the woman who earns $11 an hour at a local factory but receives no health benefits. "I buy things, I pay taxes," but I'm not sure why you think that part of the quote changes anything.

"Finally there is this quote which I'm sure you must not have seen"

I agree with Wosk in the sense that letting in illegal aliens does mean that we are forced to provide them with government services. It's a reason not to let them in.
 

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Re: Cry me a river

humorlesscretin.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 06:50:40 AM EST

none

I myself am continually amazed by the following issues which affect the immigration debate:

Both political parties argue strenuously for free trade  -- but only for goods and never for labor.

Why are you amazed by this?  Both parties are beholden to business interests.  Business profits from free trade but loses money on free movement of labor.  QED.

Both political parties are anxious to create new entitlement programs for the poor - but none seems to want to  actually eliminate the worker pool which the poor competes with. i.e. Giving the poor a chance to get ahead.

Here you're simply in error.  Both parties wish to create the appearance of entitlement programs benefiting the poor.  In practice, the difference in the parties is the difference in the actual benefactors from these programs:  insurance and pharma for the Republicans, unions (presumably among others, though none leap immediately to mind) for the Democrats.  Neither party gains anything from the poor getting ahead since the poor, being poor, are not major campaign contributors and "getting ahead" still won't bring them up to the economic level of potential campaign contributors worthy of courtship.  As a result, any attention paid to the issue is either lip service or a smokescreen used to conceal their actual intentions.

FD: I'm an American citizen who was born elsewhere and am in the process of getting the heck out of this country.

You have no idea how much I envy you right now.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

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Best Argument?

uncarved block.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:56:13 AM EST

none

   No, this sounds more like an excuse; the actual reasons illegal immigration will continue have been made (with more or less cynicism) in the other comments on this thread. For a different example, folks will allow the law enforcement to claim more and more power in the name of nabbing child pornographers, when the "real" reason (on a guess) is a general belief that "the wrong people have too much freedom." (There, is that cynical enough?) Too subtle? Perhaps, but I'm reading Nietzsche again, and he was always big on asking what was a cause, and what an effect. This has the appearance of a fig leaf, though YMMV.
   

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

8

Legal immigrants are often quite unsympathetic

geekybob.

Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 09:30:58 AM EST

none

If you want to meet a group of people who have no sympathy for illegal aliens, you could attend one of our gatherings of Russian-American couples... like the one we had Easter Sunday.
My wife did all her own paperwork, and spent a lot of time and money, to become a citizen and subsequently secure an immigrant visa for her mother. If you added up all the fees and legal expenses spent by and for the half-dozen women drinking Bailey's at the kitchen table yesterday, you could buy a really nice car (or even a really small house).
So, when the government caves in and provide another amnesty for those eleven million illegal "immigrants," all of these women -- and many thousands more -- will want their money back. For them, the message is "Sneak into the country, wait for an amnesty, and save thousands of dollars... not to mention all those income taxes you'll dodge by working under the table."

My own opinion is that they're right... and that we should change our immigration laws, but in a different direction.
Right now, immigrant visas are limited by quotas for each country, with exceptions allowed for close relatives (which is how our wives got here). Illegal "immigrants" come here illegally because they will never get a visa by simply applying for one and paying the fees. Let's drop the quotas... and simultaneously start enforcing the laws against employing undocumented workers.
By making it harder to find work, we could significantly reduce the incentives to enter the country illegally. Dropping the quotas would cause a surge of better educated, more affluent immigrants from all over the world, and encourage potential illegals to enter through legal channels.

As for the parents of those "anchor" babies? Personally, I think they should all be sent home. As the parent of a US citizen, they would then qualify for an immigrant visa... unless their previous illegal entry disqualified them.



I'm not a Democrat, I'm a liberal. Democrats go to meetings...

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Re: Legal immigrants are often quite unsympathetic

pO157.

Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:17:17 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

As for the parents of those "anchor" babies? Personally, I think they should all be sent home. As the parent of a US citizen, they would then qualify for an immigrant visa... unless their previous illegal entry disqualified them.

Any person caught in this country illegally should be disqualified for even applying for legal residency for an extremely long time.

I, too, know many legal immigrants here who are awaiting the results of the current H1-B visa lottery with great trepidation after paying thousands and working the system the right way there is still uncertainty - even for those who have high skills and will probably pay a boat load in taxes to the US.

Why should they be treated worse than a lawbreaker?

17

Re: Anchor Babies Away: Illegal Immigrants In US B

irrateIndiana.

Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:48:39 PM EST

none

how about this.  Let's all the people who were born here in the past 50 years to parents of ANY immigrant status be it a working visa tourist or otherwise.  

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