with people being stupid with their own lives.
But when it starts to affect other people, that is a different story. If he was advised to wear a mask in public, but refused to, then to hell with him. I would have a problem with it had he been arbitrarily detained upon showing up to the hospital (imagine the effects this would have on the efforts to get others with symptoms to show up for treatment!) but he was treated and advised to wear a mask. He did not. He should get quarantined until he gets his act together.
Now, I do have a problem with him being held under similar conditions as a prisoner. Make him comfortable, but isolate him. Give him access to a TV, radio, etc. I also think he should be allowed a phone -- at least so he can participate in his own court hearings. This restriction is just stupid.
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In the old days
Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 09:42:31 AM EST
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In the old days they had leper colonies, where sick and contagious people were quarantined.
Can there be TB colonies that separate the sick with TB from general population? I know we want to avoid a "typhoid Mary" situation, and this strain of TB is extremely contagious and deadly. But the treatment of this prisoner is as if being sick was a crime. While he still has life, he should be allowed to pursue his happiness and have some degree of liberty, in so much as it doesn't threaten anyone else. General compassion seems to be an after thought. I think that seems to be the prevalent complaint.
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Re: In the old days
Sat Apr 07, 2007 at 04:26:03 PM EST
4.25 (funny, funny, funny)
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But the treatment of this prisoner is as if being sick was a crime.
when being sick is a is crime, only criminals will be sick.
escalators never fail; they just become stairs
I understand the need for keeping him separated from the rest of society, but I find his treatment appalling. I don't understand why not being allowed to shower or watch TV is relevant to keeping the strain of TB quarantined. Does this new strain travel through wires? Are the facilities available to Maricopa County Medical Center incapable of recycling the water he uses. Bathing with wetnaps, for crying out loud?!
Does anyone here think that someone who was fully integrated as part of his community -- a bill gates, or even a member here on TnT would be subject to the same treatment? If the society is going to restrict an individuals liberty for the reason the writeup states, then the minimum society owes the individual is creating a setting of maximum comfort.
This means TV, Radio, internet access, telephone. It means shower facilities and other hospice like care facilities.
I find it questionable to constrain the man in this manner -- however having done so, the method seems to be designed to be punitive rather than with security in mind.
Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.
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Re: poor mans justice
Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 12:42:57 PM EST
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Does anyone here think that someone who was fully integrated as part of his community -- a bill gates, or even a member here on TnT would be subject to the same treatment? If the society is going to restrict an individuals liberty for the reason the writeup states, then the minimum society owes the individual is creating a setting of maximum comfort.
Probably not, but then again the question may be moot. Would any of us, diagnosed with such a horrible, untreatable and extremely contagious disease ignore the risk to our fellow human beings, when such risk could be completely abolished with the use of a 50¢ piece of surgical guaze mask?
If the guy had followed the precautions he would not have been in this mess. Of course, there may be some truth to his argument that somehow, the risks to others were not effectively communicated to him. We all know how wonderful healthcare providers can be at explaining things to patients these days, especially if the person has a decreased ability to comprehend what is going on. If so, I'd be fine with letting him out with the warning that if he is ever seen in public again without a mask before his infection clears up he will be back in quarantine for a very, very, long time.
Oh, that's actually Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, America's toughest sheriff. The guy who likes to humiliate and degrade prisoners. I guess he has no problem treating a guy with a communicable disease little better than Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
I strongly suggest you listen to the radio report link on this link. It's an interview with a local Phoenix reporter and it's enough to make me want to throw up. The sheriff's spokesperson says he's "not guilty of any crime" but he's treated like every other prisoner. I wonder how many of Sheriff Joe's wards are not allowed showers and not allowed contact with the outside world? The reporter indicated she tried to talk with Daniels through his lawyer (who must be a piece of work) and was told he "wasn't allowed" to talk to anyone. Who ordered that and one wonders what this particular barrister thinks "aggressively representing his client" means anyhow? Memo to self, if you're ever in Phoenix, do not under any circumstances hire Robert Blecher as my lawyer. Better to represent myself and have a fool for a client than hire Blecher and have one for a lawyer.
I've been turning around in my mind why the sheriff decided after a couple of months to essentially thrown Daniels in solitary. I thought that maybe Daniels had been a constant complainer and was threatening to have his lawyer sue Maricopa County. But then I remembered that Blecher was his attorney and the thought that this useless law school grad would actually do something to defend his client is incomprehensible. So, I figured they did it to Daniels because they could. Yeah, that probably explains it.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
Does anybody wonder if the loss of all of the hospital amenities could be due not to some grand policy on the part of the administration but rather the actions of a few (quite reasonably so) scared <beepless> guards?
I would imagine the brightest bulbs in law enforcement are not sent to guard sick prisoners in a hospital ward. It is quite possible that they have been poorly educated about what is going on and quite frankly want as little contact with the patient as possible (which explains why his shower, etc have been curtailed) to avoid catching a contagion which probably scares the crap out of them.
Still, this is something that any attorney at or above the Lionel Hutz calibre should have be able to address to get the guards proper education and training (and if needed, a judicial order to get his amenities returned). It is as much his attorney's fault for not calling shenanigans when that started.
It is an age old question of morality -- the freedom of an individual versus A rather similar question is considered in the old musical Brigadoon in which one desperate rebel wants to destroy the magical town of Brigadoon by breaking the spell and running away. In that story, the question is settled not by the individual or the collective but by yet another rebelious individual who pushes him off a cliff to his death. And there's a lesson in here, to some degree. Now that this man is known, the danger he poses to society in turn becomes a danger to himself. Who wouldn't straight up kill him before he coughed on them if they got the chance? Plenty of people would. So I think the question of his freedom is all but moot. It's in no ones interest to see him walking about. His treatment in this case...now that seems extreme.
Personally, since we all now the medical-industrial complex doesn't give a shit about the people in its care, I believe that he should also be given availability to alternative treatments. Western medicine has no cure but it's quite likely that other therapies would likely assist in his recovery. He cannot be made a guinea pig.
escalators never fail; they just become stairs